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Old 28th November 2012, 01:17 AM   #121
ryzaa is offline ryzaa  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angeloitacare View Post
Listened Avantgarde Trio here in Hong Kong, at the official distributors place.
My perception was completely different than when i heard it before. This time, the flaws where right away perceivable. Bad integration of the 3 main channels, no much treble extension, and quite colored.
Hi Angelo,

I have spent some time modelling the Avant Garde Trio Horns.

With respect to the lack of treble extension, I think it may be because of the cancellation from the size driver they use for their highs. If you look at their specs, they list a 1" exit driver, but if you model them as exponential horns, the only way that their dimensions for their high frequency horn can expand to 90 degrees at the tangent is by using a 1.4" exit driver, which I believe has some roll-off exhibited above about 12k, which may be what you were experiencing.
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Old 28th November 2012, 01:47 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anubisgrau View Post
i'm a bit scared that beymas will not be able to avoid a ribbon stamp - forensic reproduction devoid of serious dynamic impact of real music - which i dearly hate, if my experience with any ribbon aiming to play under 7-8k so far is relevant. i'm only sensing it needs a driver with very rich tone so some i want to try are vitavox S3 from 450 on, audax PR170M0 from 250 on and fane 8M from 150 on. i will report here on findings..
Gordan

the Beyma has less dynamic contrast than compression drivers. But its still more dynamic than ribbons, sounds fuller, has more " meat ", probably also because it goes lower. That is a tradeoff i am more than happy to accept, to have in the counterpart the tremendous advantages, linearity, homogeneous, very natural and holographic sound. Trying out 8" or 10" direct radiators, i will step into new territory. But i trust the Germans, like Dieter Achenbach, which commercializes a diy kit :

Kits

acording to what i have read on german blogs, the PHL is a perfect match for the Beyma , with very natural and dynamic behavor, and integrating seemlessly.
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Old 28th November 2012, 02:00 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryzaa View Post
Hi Angelo,

I have spent some time modelling the Avant Garde Trio Horns.

With respect to the lack of treble extension, I think it may be because of the cancellation from the size driver they use for their highs. If you look at their specs, they list a 1" exit driver, but if you model them as exponential horns, the only way that their dimensions for their high frequency horn can expand to 90 degrees at the tangent is by using a 1.4" exit driver, which I believe has some roll-off exhibited above about 12k, which may be what you were experiencing.
I have made direct comparisons between a 1" compression drivers , Celestion 1425, and Radian 475, in a small round horn with 18cm diameter, JMLC curve, with Coral H100 tweeter, and the difference was clearly perceivable. 1" ers go out of steam earlyer, probably starting at 12khz or so. The Trio was also my starting point when i made my system. You can avoid making basic mistakes, like not time align the drivers, and not arrange them in a vertical line. That will avoid a important part of the weekness of the AV Trio.
I also didnt like the lower midrange of the Trio so much. Mine at home sounds much more natural......to get the timbre and format of instruments rights is not a easy thing. I am still thinking about what is the reason for such a big difference of performance. Many reasons are possible....

Last edited by angeloitacare; 28th November 2012 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 28th November 2012, 07:50 PM   #124
JoshK is offline JoshK  Canada
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I heard Avantgarde Duos and I heard almost all the Wilson line up and can't say I've been impressed with either. I imagine setup was a great deal of both of the issues, but I've heard much better pedestrian systems.

To each their own. I think everyone comes to the table with their own desire/goals and agenda. For me, hi-eff brings something that other speakers don't. I am not married to the Beyma's but I wanted to try them as they are quite different than other approaches.

Josh
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Old 16th September 2013, 10:30 PM   #125
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Mark Levinson stated that the Daniel Hertz M1 uses custom drivers. Attached T/S spreadsheet of high quality production 12" midbass. The M1, similar to the Geddes Summa, decided to create an audio illusion which includes room effects below the horn/baffle polar control frequency.

A 3-way M1-type design (woofer+midbass+CD/Heil) which uses a 12" midbass for high efficiency would have a few design decisions:

1) sealed volume midbass
2) ported/aperodic volume midbass
3) active Xover with equalization
4) passive Xover with port tuning options for passive room bass equalization
5) Low(<0.2) Qts 12" midbass to optimize tweeter sonic interface
6) medium(0.3-0.4) Qts midbass to optimze bass sonic interface

The Qtc=0.15 Beyma 12" midbass is an interesting solution for a large'ish low Qts sealed volume with active Xover that blends well with the CD/HEIL tweeter.(1)+(3)+(5) or (1)+(2aperodic)+(5). The 12P80Nd and 18P80Nd share Beyma's latest motors and cones.


The Qtc=0.29 18Sound 12MBW420 has a very light(33g) cone that makes it a good solution for passive Xovers. (1)+(4)+(6)

An underhung motor with similar T/S specs is possible, and would allow more Mms in the cone material, and waste less Mms in the voice coil.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 12_Midbass.JPG (275.1 KB, 491 views)
File Type: jpg 12Midbass_Active_Passive.JPG (328.9 KB, 481 views)

Last edited by LineSource; 16th September 2013 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 27th September 2013, 10:55 PM   #126
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Has anyone tried the Beyma 6G40Fe ?

that seems to be a good contender to pair with TPL in a MTM configuration :

http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/6G40FeE.pdf
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Old 28th September 2013, 03:41 PM   #127
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Default Matching sensitivity

Hi Angelo,
I have never tried this driver my self but I have heard an interesting 3 way using it and a the TPL in an active set up....Very nice indeed.

The speakers had 4 of the six inch Beyma drivers ( he was not sure if it was the Neo or Ferrite as he didn't build the speakers) in a mini line array with the TPL mounted to the side, at the mid point of the array.
He said it resulted in 100dB sensitivity of the midranges to match the TPL ( he used the TPL in the horn) and much lower distortion and more natural vocals.
The bass was Beyma 12 inch Pro, not sure which model.
Everything was through an active crossover, not sure what make but he said it was a good studio grade Pro unit. It was all fully balanced, DAC's power amps and crossover.
Lovely clear sound, very natural vocals and cymbals were realistic with both decay and attack.
Cabinets were some sort of nylon sheeting, about 20mm thick and very heavy, CNC'd baffle looked cool in Aqua blue!
Apparently it was built as a PA but sounded so good it ended up in a studio and then bought by a client.

Hope that helps
Derek.
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Old 28th September 2013, 03:45 PM   #128
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Default PS

The Beyma's were run between 200Hz and 2,000 Hz with steep crossover slopes. Just had it confirmed...The crossover was an old Doby Lake processor... They were / are fantastic units, better than a DEQX he said!

Cheers
Derek.
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Old 28th September 2013, 05:40 PM   #129
bifor is offline bifor  Italy
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I have built an OB with TPL 150 , Beyma 10Mi100 mid, Eminence Deltalite 215II woofer.
OB is 55x110 cm laminated baltic birch 36 mm mid and Tw 10 cm offset to center woofer.
Crossover: 10Mi100 to TPL 150 2nd order at 2000Hz passive
Deltalite actively driven by a Crown XLS1000 with 160Hz low pass, equalized with Bheringer ultra curve pro 2496.
TPL 150 is (imho) an extraordinary driver and this very simple setup is sounding to my ears very very good.
Ciao
Bruno
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Old 28th September 2013, 07:17 PM   #130
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Last week i introduced my Hiraga Le Classe A into my system. Together with my dad's speaker cable's sound now is very satisfying. Treble is smooth, no harshness anymore as with Classé DR3b, and Silver speaker cables. I do not see much more improvement possible. On the one side, that is of course very satisfying. On the other side, i do not want to get bored ......
So : two weeks ago i attended a High-end Audio Show in São Paulo. Spoke to some expositors, showed my designs, and they liked them very much. So i am encouraged maibe to make something commercial. Most of the exposed speakers were rather small size, to fit small living rooms.

So i am designing a speaker system, which should attend following criteria :
be small, not too expensive, but still with excellent sonic performance, and nice lookings.

The Beyma TPL is expensive. I found following alternative :

AMT : YDG718-01-4Ω-50W

Click the image to open in full size.

i made two drawings :

Boths MTMW design, the amt back open, woofer bass reflex, eventually active with a plate amp. Crossover 100hz, and 1,8khz. Fully time aligned to the listeners position at 4m distance.

1.

Click the image to open in full size.

Here i would use the chinese amt, a pair either of

Beyma 6" :

6P200Fe

http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/6P200FeE.pdf

or 6G40Fe

http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/6G40FeE.pdf

and woofer :

either :10G40

http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/10G40E.pdf

or 10LW30NE

http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/htt...W30NE.pdfE.pdf

and a second design in a smaller package :

Click the image to open in full size.

here the choice of mids and woofers would be easyer :

for the mids :5P200Fe

http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/5P200FeE.pdf

and woofer : 8P300Fe

http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/htt...00FeE.pdfE.pdf

comments ?

Last edited by angeloitacare; 28th September 2013 at 07:20 PM.
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