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Old 21st September 2011, 04:32 AM   #1
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Default Desktop PC monitor speakers

Hi Guys. I like to think of myself as a bit of a dance music producer. just as a hobby, and because i enjoy it.

My PC has an Audigy sound card and it runs through an old Technics 2x110w amp.

the speakers im currently producing on are just borrowed from a fairly new JVC mini hifi system, two way, 6inch woofer and 2inch tweeter. I also have a pair of old kenwood two ways that are slightly larger cab but still 6inch and 2inch pairing. < id rather pull them down and rebuild some basic (next to monitor cabs) for them instead of the JVC, but heres my dilemma and why im posting this.

the music i play/produce on the JVC speakers sounds good on the JVC speakers. but on every other speaker no matter what the brand/size etc, sounds bassy and flat/dull like theres no real treble to the mix.

would it be fair to say that the JVC speakers are a bit too exaggerated in the tops and then when im producing to what sounds crisp, its actually not?

basically, what i want is a pair of simple desktop type speakers that i can rely on knowing they can go loud enough to hear properly, but at low volume be accurate enough so that im hearing what im actually going to get.

i used to use a pair of my Sony hifi speakers, they had a dual 6inch driver and a tweeter in the center, but they had crap bass and made my tracks sound even bassier on other speakers as i was overcompensating for their lack of bass.

im not 100% sure what im trying to ask, but if someone can decipher my situ maybe you can point me towards a happy medium.

the room is (maybe) 4-6 sq metres. and id be well within arms length of the speakers while producing. i have about 8inches on eithe side of the monitor before running out of shelf space.

an idea that i had, was to use the kenwood drivers in a tall tapped horn with the tweeter just above the mouth and the woofer facing out the mouth for the extra bass response.

im on a pretty tight budget, but could put aside $50-100 for wood over a couple weeks.
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Old 21st September 2011, 05:29 AM   #2
ZeNmAc is offline ZeNmAc  United States
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You want basically flat frequency response for mixing like you found out. If your speakers have a U shaped response your mix will come out the opposite, (n-shaped ? ). Aim for your mix sounding how you want it on a system with flat frequency response (or if you're mixing it for yourself you may consider compensating for your own speaker's weaknesses).

As always the problem here is money. I wouldn't mess with the speakers you have unless you have a way to measure the thiele/parameters.

If you have a measurement mic that would be great, then you could use a parametric eq on the speakers you have.

If you don't have that I'd suggest eq'ing them by ear to as flat as possible. Use pink noise or possibly sine sweeps especially if you don't have a good reference.
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Old 21st September 2011, 06:35 AM   #3
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hmmm, the EQ factor sounds the go, i guess i could save a preset EQ setting within the software i use, but then would i activate it before or after production... hmmm...

on the other hand, i could certainly measure the basic T/s params like i have been suggested with my other speakers and then go from there?

actually, i just had an idea, i might just confirm that theyre not out of phase, 99.9% sure theyre not, but doesnt hurt to check...

something else to add, i used to use the same JVC speakers in the lounge room, they sounded pretty decent in the lounge, but now the system lives in a much smaller room and suddenly they sound like they have no bass. can see em pumping, but not doing alot... so ill check the polarity first and maybe then look to placement issues.
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Old 21st September 2011, 07:02 AM   #4
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im wondering also, when the kit was in the lounge, i also had a 12inch sub running alongside.. im wondering that now its gone, im hearing that the JVCs were actually quite crap to start with lol.... maybe....
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Old 21st September 2011, 07:13 AM   #5
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Measuring the T/S parameters may be helpful if you are planning to build a box. What you want is a measurement mic. If you produce, then it should be one you can use as a reference.

Unless you like to EQ differently for normal listening, the EQ to make the system flat would be a kind of permanent thing.

You may want to make sure the sound is free of some of the standard issues such as..are the cabinet walls vibrating, is there some stuffing in the box, do they have any unusual plastic bezels on the front or discontinuities that would create/exploit diffraction, etc.

About the JVCs, room placement is important. No doubt the sub helped. Try placing them in the corners to see...but don't leave them there.
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Old 21st September 2011, 08:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post

Unless you like to EQ differently for normal listening, the EQ to make the system flat would be a kind of permanent thing.
k, that makes sense, only the eq i have is part of the FruityLoops software, it just have to set a preset and be sure to load it up each time i start a new file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
You may want to make sure the sound is free of some of the standard issues such as..are the cabinet walls vibrating, is there some stuffing in the box, do they have any unusual plastic bezels on the front or discontinuities that would create/exploit diffraction, etc.
walls arent vibrating, i dont think theres any stuffing, and they have unusual bezels. but theyve always had that...

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
About the JVCs, room placement is important. No doubt the sub helped. Try placing them in the corners to see...but don't leave them there.
im building one of Jbells ss15 cabs for my alpine S-type 12inch sub that will give me this:

Click the image to open in full size.

i think once all thats built and working, im not sure ill need to worry about my lack of bass... but id still like them to sound their best coz i still have the sounding flat on other speakers issue...

maybe that could be adjusted with the EQ instead??
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Old 21st September 2011, 10:39 AM   #7
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klampykixx View Post
i think once all thats built and working, im not sure ill need to worry about my lack of bass... but id still like them to sound their best coz i still have the sounding flat on other speakers issue...
Room placement is just as important. The sub will help here because now there'll be three bass producing units instead of two, helping to distribute bass evenly into the room.

If you add a sub but do it wrongly, you'll still have bass issues but they'll be heavier.

Quote:
maybe that could be adjusted with the EQ instead??
Once you begin dealing with acoustic problems, EQ fails. You can make a problem frequency range more quiet, and it will still sound like the same problem only quiet, plus you'll miss all the good stuff.

If the speakers produce less bass and you want more, or if you like to listen with more/less treble then EQ is the perfect solution.
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Old 21st September 2011, 02:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post

If the speakers produce less bass and you want more, or if you like to listen with more/less treble then EQ is the perfect solution.
its not so much that i like to listen to more or less bass or treble.

if im right with this, its actually that theyre possibly too sensitive in the tweeter, so when im hearing crisp highs on the JVC speakers, everywhere else, its dull and flat.

heres a link to a track im halfway through. perhaps you can judge it based on sound quality alone to assess what im referring to.

klampykixx

i was told that this sounded really bass heavy and quite dull on my friends 5.1 system, and then i checked it on my sony hifi and i tend to agree that its bass heavy and flat/dull. yet, on the JVC, and also in my headphones, (sennheiser hd202) it sounds nice, crisp, clear and not with massively overpowering bass.

perhaps its just the way i like it to sound... and i guess, when i play it on the PA i tend to adjust the EQ to suit my sound, so on the PA it sounds good also, but everywhere else, ... who knows... let me know if you think its just me, (my hearing could be starting to go.... ??) or if its my speakers being a little too bright, of which, i could either adjust in the EQ, or even maybe adjust the cross over in the cabs to tone down the tweeter some.....

let me know thanks
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Old 21st September 2011, 06:31 PM   #9
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Well, first of all, you're right about mixing with speakers that exaggerate certain frequency bands - you'll "fix" the EQ of the speakers with your mix.

Listening through M-Audio AV30s the mix sounded good, but they have no bass. Using AT MA-30 headphones, the bass was a lot deeper, but the highs still sounded good. Moving to MA-40s (full ear coverage) the bass went really deep and the highs started sounding recessed.

Hardly a definitive audition, but I think what's going on is your bass signal isn't really a bass note that can be reproduced, but a seismic trigger that causes the woofer to resonate. It works with "tight" speakers, but if the speaker starts adding it's own bump, then the overall balance shifts, and the highs get lost.

Trouble is, one speaker can't represent everything, so back when we had a studio, we mixed things, then auditioned them on four different speakers, including a trip to the car (this was back when AM radio play still mattered).
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Old 21st September 2011, 11:08 PM   #10
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so based on that^^ what i think i might do, is clean up the kenwood speakers and use them in conjunction with the JVCs, that way i can switch between pairs of drivers and get a wider representation of what im actually putting together.

on that note, if i was still interested in building myself a pair of new desktop speakers, and could find the T/s params of the drivers id be using, what sort of cab should i be looking at checking out?

can i scale down a Jbell SS15 for a 6inch driver and have it yield similar scaled down response or does it not work like that? just to add to this question, if i was to do that, i would pick a driver that i knew the T/s for so i wasnt just guessing...

TH, OB, Ported, Sealed, ?? i could even go as far as building a small rear loaded horn and using up the group of 4 6inch drivers i have that've never been used...

what do you guys think?
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