Laying front speakers horizontally

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Hi guys,

I am looking for some input into a problem that i am trying to resolve.

Due to a redesign of our entertainment unit, and under strict orders from the better half, i am no longer able to have my two front main speakers up on stands in the normal vertical alignment. We are in the process of installing a “floating” cabinet under the TV which is about 5m long, height of about 40cm and a depth of about 60cm.

At present i have B&W v202’s as my 2 front mains (almost 20yrs old), with a B&W centre channel + surrounds, with a DIY dual 10” Sub. I use my system probably 80% for 2channel and 20% HT use.

As i am no longer able to have the 2 front main speakers sitting in their normal alignment, i will need to have something that lays flat much like a centre channel under the TV.

After doing quite a bit of research, my understanding is that laying a speaker flat that is built to go vertical will cause all sorts of phasing issues and generally be a bad idea.

So i was thinking, would there be a benefit to building 2x centre channel style speakers (in a d’Appolito configuration) and using 2 of these as my 2 main front speakers? Having a bit of a look around on the web i came across this unit by Troels Gravesen: 8008-Center

I was really hoping that somebody may have some ideas, advice or suggestions on what the best way around my predicament would be?

Thanks in advance!
 
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When you lay the speakers on their sides, the response holes caused by lobing around the crossover region become issues in the horizontal plane where they may have a greater negative effect. Furthermore, you will be limited in how you point them toward the listening position and so won't be able to set the correct toe.

On the other hand, you will be faced with diffraction and reflections from the cabinet. You'll have to decide which problems you will fix, which you will treat, and which you'll ignore. The D'Appolito approach combined with some absorption around the speakers would be one way to go.

Is there any chance you could chop the bottom third off the cabinets, converting them to sealed and augmenting with subs?
 
The 3-way you linked seems like a reasonable solution to your problem because the vertical TM pushes the dual woofer operating range lower; so horizontal woofer spacing is a lesser issue. The 3-way is a much better approach than the typical horizontal MTM.

If you have measurement and crossover skills, consider a slightly larger mid (like the MCA-15) with an even lower XO frequency. For L&R speakers, you could position both woofers toward the inside of your cabinet, or use a single 10-12" beside the TM...but this still requires measurement and XO development. Lots of possibilities.
 
How much room do you have? These are 15 ½” tall and are excellent for HT. A lot of bang for the buck for $133 per kit. I built 10 so far, gave/sold them to friends; they all love them. The fellows at Madisound did a nice job with the crossover but need to work on the advertising a bit. Attached are pics of the speakers and crossover supplied (no cabs.) I have one left, using it for center now.

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/mtm-speaker-kits/hds-home-theater-kit-parts-only/

Hi guys,

I am looking for some input into a problem that i am trying to resolve.

Due to a redesign of our entertainment unit, and under strict orders from the better half, i am no longer able to have my two front main speakers up on stands in the normal vertical alignment. We are in the process of installing a “floating” cabinet under the TV which is about 5m long, height of about 40cm and a depth of about 60cm.

At present i have B&W v202’s as my 2 front mains (almost 20yrs old), with a B&W centre channel + surrounds, with a DIY dual 10” Sub. I use my system probably 80% for 2channel and 20% HT use.

As i am no longer able to have the 2 front main speakers sitting in their normal alignment, i will need to have something that lays flat much like a centre channel under the TV.

After doing quite a bit of research, my understanding is that laying a speaker flat that is built to go vertical will cause all sorts of phasing issues and generally be a bad idea.

So i was thinking, would there be a benefit to building 2x centre channel style speakers (in a d’Appolito configuration) and using 2 of these as my 2 main front speakers? Having a bit of a look around on the web i came across this unit by Troels Gravesen: 8008-Center

I was really hoping that somebody may have some ideas, advice or suggestions on what the best way around my predicament would be?

Thanks in advance!
 

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Is there any chance you could chop the bottom third off the cabinets, converting them to sealed and augmenting with subs?

You mean chop off of my current speakers? I would like to avoid this as they are original B&W's so if anything i would make new cabs for them to test it out.

Out of curiosity what are we trying to achieve by doing this?

As a side note - i already have 2x 10" sub so the augmenting with a sub is already taken care of.
 
The 3-way you linked seems like a reasonable solution to your problem because the vertical TM pushes the dual woofer operating range lower; so horizontal woofer spacing is a lesser issue. The 3-way is a much better approach than the typical horizontal MTM.

Well thats good to know that my theory wasnt too far off the mark! :)

If you have measurement and crossover skills, consider a slightly larger mid (like the MCA-15) with an even lower XO frequency. For L&R speakers, you could position both woofers toward the inside of your cabinet, or use a single 10-12" beside the TM...but this still requires measurement and XO development. Lots of possibilities.

Understand what your saying but unfortunately the aforementioned skills are non existent :( i would be relying solely on others expertise to determine this for me as much as i wish i could do it.
 
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Out of curiosity what are we trying to achieve by doing this?

I thought there was a height restriction. It would be the same as repositioning the tweeter only if you do unscrew it and float it instead, you'll probably create more problems than you'll solve.

You may be able to get away with a smaller box in a closed configuration (wants checking though), and a closed system may integrate better with your subs.
 
I thought there was a height restriction. It would be the same as repositioning the tweeter only if you do unscrew it and float it instead, you'll probably create more problems than you'll solve.

You may be able to get away with a smaller box in a closed configuration (wants checking though), and a closed system may integrate better with your subs.

Ah ok understood. So your saying shorten the box so i can still mount it vertically rather than lay it down.
 
Personally, I would not lay the speakers horizontally, unless there is just no other option.

The Madisound HDS is a super kit as far as sound quality. The tweeter is better by design, reminds me of the Morel MDT line without the big price tag. The voice coil is centered under the dimple of the dome and I do find the Vifa does not “beam” as much and has a wider sound stage. No ferrofluid!! (ferrofluild dries out eventually)

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/vifa-xt25tg30-04-1-ring-radiator-tweeter/


Vifa XT25TG30-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter
This superb transducer features a patented dual concentric diaphragm and a unique wave guide center plug which provide an excellent on- and off-axis response. The XT25-type tweeter is acclaimed for its very natural sound with an extremely smooth frequency response that extends well beyond the human hearing range. The dual chamber design and absence of ferrofluid results in a low resonance frequency.

Ah ok understood. So your saying shorten the box so i can still mount it vertically rather than lay it down.
 
Yes, unfortunately i dont have too much of an option but to lay them down. Its either lay them down and conceal them, or scrap the system. Hence my research into any and all other options.

This picture is similar to what i have to try and make work:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


In this horizontal space i have in order from one end to the other, front right speaker, amp, center channel, ps3, left front speaker. These are hidden behind a series of fold down doors which i open up when using the system.
 
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Whether you use your current speakers and find the best angle to point them to reduce the cancellations, or if you choose to build a horizontal MTM, I'd want to make sure the shelf itself wasn't allowed to interfere too much with what's coming out.
 
A lot of systems would have superior sound, if design wasn’t primary.
I did build a horizontal speaker for a friend’s HT, because so we didn’t have al lot of space under the screen. The room had great acoustics; even with modest equipment, it sounds great, can really hear the detail. It’s in a large basement, thick carpets, big couches, the ceiling is a 12”x 12” acoustical tile.
The shelf is built and pic is example? Do you plan on building speakers into the shelf?
I would consider building three separate speakers into the “shelf box”; either in sections, or all one unit.
Flush mount drywall speakers are an option, although a neighbor tried that; huge room, projector, etc. the sound is somewhat painful.
 
A lot of systems would have superior sound, if design wasn’t primary.

Ain't that the truth! Unfortunately we sometimes need to find the right balance between form and functionality to keep everyone happy.

ODougbo said:
I did build a horizontal speaker for a friend’s HT, because so we didn’t have al lot of space under the screen. The room had great acoustics; even with modest equipment, it sounds great, can really hear the detail.

Interesting - with this for the 2 front mains? If so i would be very interested in the details!

ODougbo said:
I would consider building three separate speakers into the “shelf box”; either in sections, or all one unit.

This is absolutely an option if i can work out a final design for the speakers themselves.

ODougbo said:
Flush mount drywall speakers are an option, although a neighbor tried that; huge room, projector, etc. the sound is somewhat painful.

Unfortunately thats not an option for me as my walls are double brick :(

The benefit i have is that the unit is not built yet and i will be building it, so i have alot of flexibility on the dimensions and design. My plan is to work out my speaker design and requirements first and then build the cabinet to suit, so i am somewhat starting with a blank canvas. I guess this is reason i am trying to work out the speakers first - once i have a design finalized i can finish drawing up the cabinet.
 
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