Well, I don't know what you mean with "the now unfashionable acoustic suspension bass"? ......its hard to find a more controlled bass reproduction than acoustic suspension.
Several different speakers as Kef , JBL , B&W , B&O , Scanspeak among others has been used here, and none......I mean none of them did ever leave me the feeling of being there with the musicians! ....but the AR3a did just that:
Look at the AR3a of mine:
https://picasaweb.google.com/vbkolsen/AcousticResearchAR3aAR11#5649255917072786754
https://picasaweb.google.com/vbkolsen/AcousticResearchAR3aAR11#
And the rest of the AR3a history with mr. Edgar Willshur....then you might get a picture and understand how the tweeter paper cones move the air-molecules and this way sounds more natural. ?:
TUBEAMP look for AR3a
AR some of the best speakers from US.
regards
Your 3a woofers are the early version if the surround is cloth. Sometimes the fiber rings the surround and the spider attach to separate from the alloy basket. Tapping with eraser end of a pencil is one way to locate looseness. Then there's the problem of which adhesive. My luck with CA glues is not great.
Recommendations?
Recommendations?
My AR3a woofers has foam surroundings, so they are some later types. I do have a link for "soft" epoxy wood and metal glue:
Kb Epoxy harpiks og klbemidler 2031 Sort epoxypastaklbemiddel Araldite 1735208 online fra RS. unfortunately black!!
Very strong and I have not experienced the woodfiber rings getting loose by use of this glue type.
I have a pair of 20003 woofers from AR91 with the "small" fiber woodring. Do you know whether this later 11" AR woofer has different parameters as Fo and VAS ? I tried one and this woofer did not sound as "deep" as my old pair of AR3a woofers....one reason could be that the newer AR91 woofer was nearly unused and the spider was very stiff and not flexible??
rgds. Kim
Before I saw the AR3a of yours, I thought about making a brand new pair of cabinets for a second AR3a speaker pair of mine . First because MDF hardwood is more heavy and I like to do the woodwork, secondly because I have owned most of the home speakers available, and none of them has pleased me more than Edgar's AR3a.. I like to have them in perfect shape
Attached pair of AR3a in rare birchwood, which I would like to finer with rosewood. I apologize for the rather blurred picture
I think rosewood has a beautiful deep dark colour.
Attached the rather thin fiber woodring of the AR91 200003 woofer before repair of the foam surrounding . Can anyone tell me whether there are diffenrent AR 11" 200003 woofers as far as Fo is concerned?
Last attached picture is a AR11 11" 200003 woofer where the former owner had removed the fiber woodring. I made two new fiber woodrings and glued them on once more.
regards
Attachments
Your mirrored AR3a pair looks like that they are made of plywood?...and the stiffening wood pieces looks like solid walnut ...or something like that? The AR3's from Europe are made of veneered chipboard.
Look at the AR3a from Italy. The Italian joiner made a beautiful job....like it or not..the woodwork is ok:
audiocostruzioni.com
Rgds.Kim
The AR1W's were made with marine plywood. Very water repellent stuff. Some of the cabinets are made with 2 sided walnut veneer. It didn't take long before that changed to single sided.
When you say 2 sided...you mean walnut veneer on the inside of the cabinet ? Expensive! Cabinetmakers normally uses a cheap wood type for the inside of the cabinet . This is necessary when the cabinet factory under pressure warms the veneer on both sides of the woodplate, done to avoid any bending of the wooden panel.
Have you ever seen a pair of AR1W's or AR3a in rosewood?
I have just bought rosewood veneer for 175 US$.
I hobe that I can convert my AR3a pair in light birchwood into a beautiful dark pair in rosewood
Rgds. Kim
When you say 2 sided...you mean walnut veneer on the inside of the cabinet ? Expensive! Cabinetmakers normally uses a cheap wood type for the inside of the cabinet . This is necessary when the cabinet factory under pressure warms the veneer on both sides of the woodplate, done to avoid any bending of the wooden panel.
Have you ever seen a pair of AR1W's or AR3a in rosewood?
I have just bought rosewood veneer for 175 US$.
I hobe that I can convert my AR3a pair in light birchwood into a beautiful dark pair in rosewood
Rgds. Kim
IIRC, that pair of 1W's in my mirror image picture are rosewood.
Yes, there was veneer on the insides as well as the outside.
Bean counters=accountants (who worry about cost to manufacture)
Sorry , I could not see on the picture that your 1W's had rosewood veneer.
A bit off topic: In Europe we call rosewood : "Palisander" ....I found this:
" Rosewood is the commonest common name for the genus dalbergia. Yet some woods are often referred to as rosewood that do not belong to the genus dalbergia (african or bolivian rosewood).
The same seems to apply with palisander and jacaranda outside the US. References to Rio Palisander (as well as Rio rosewood) generally refer to Brazilian rosewood (dalbergia nigra). Jacaranda Pardo appears to generally refer to machaerium (which may be "bolivian rosewood")."
I payed for 35 year old Rio Palisander. We do not have permission to cut down rosewood trees the next 80år as I understand it, because of too much tree felling.
Too many projects here...but I will try to get back with some pictures later. Exept from the palisander veneer, I will try to keep the old AR3a birch close to the original layout. The other AR3a pair of mine was converted to the "improved" layout because of cabinets in very bad condition.
AR3a the most powerful bass?
I asked the following question to some experts :
Does the 200003 11" woofers from AR91 have slightly higher Fo....say 22Hz ( I think we got 14Hz or 16Hz on the AR3a woofers), or is it just because the AR91 woofers were hardly used and the spider were less flexible? The 200003 woofer from AR91 has the "smaller" fiber woodring of approx. 7mm. ?
And I received two answers:
"You are correct. Later AR 12 inch woofers had a somewhat stiffer suspension and an original Fs over 20hz. Earlier woofers had more compliant suspensions, and an original Fs of around 18hz or less. Fs of 14hz or 15hz indicates some wear, but will provide the deeper response you describe...at the expense of some power handling capability."
"Yes,the 3a woofer produces the most bass and the AR-11 woofer produces a little less bass and the AR-91 produces a little bit less than the AR-11 woofer."
The AR11 sounds a bit more "open" , because the woofer produces higher frequences and a little less bass.!...is it the spider , change of the magnet field strenght , weight of the papercone or a combination of all three factors ? ....we have to measure the woofers .
I asked the following question to some experts :
Does the 200003 11" woofers from AR91 have slightly higher Fo....say 22Hz ( I think we got 14Hz or 16Hz on the AR3a woofers), or is it just because the AR91 woofers were hardly used and the spider were less flexible? The 200003 woofer from AR91 has the "smaller" fiber woodring of approx. 7mm. ?
And I received two answers:
"You are correct. Later AR 12 inch woofers had a somewhat stiffer suspension and an original Fs over 20hz. Earlier woofers had more compliant suspensions, and an original Fs of around 18hz or less. Fs of 14hz or 15hz indicates some wear, but will provide the deeper response you describe...at the expense of some power handling capability."
"Yes,the 3a woofer produces the most bass and the AR-11 woofer produces a little less bass and the AR-91 produces a little bit less than the AR-11 woofer."
The AR11 sounds a bit more "open" , because the woofer produces higher frequences and a little less bass.!...is it the spider , change of the magnet field strenght , weight of the papercone or a combination of all three factors ? ....we have to measure the woofers .
You got a bunch of good answers. The older 3a woofers spec is 18 hz. The 14-16 hz you quoted are sometimes found in the earliest woofers that have tired spiders and surrounds.
18 hz isn't that far from 22. IMO, in the grand scheme of things and with the dynamic nature of music, you won't notice a significant difference in the sound; assuming you put a 200003 woofer in a vintage 3a cabinet. However, as others have pointed out, all things are not equal in the more modern AR's vs the 3a.
If you were to put a vintage 3a woofer in an AR11 or 91 with a #7 or #9 coil in series, that would be a good experiment. Then conduct a blind test. I suspect you won't be able to tell the difference.
18 hz isn't that far from 22. IMO, in the grand scheme of things and with the dynamic nature of music, you won't notice a significant difference in the sound; assuming you put a 200003 woofer in a vintage 3a cabinet. However, as others have pointed out, all things are not equal in the more modern AR's vs the 3a.
If you were to put a vintage 3a woofer in an AR11 or 91 with a #7 or #9 coil in series, that would be a good experiment. Then conduct a blind test. I suspect you won't be able to tell the difference.
Last edited:
Many years ago I heard a 20 Hz sinustone 30 metres away from the woofer which was placed on a table in a auditorium....that was a deep sound barely audible to the human ear.
So yes..there are not that much difference between 18 Hz or 22 Hz, and the human ear needs more than a few of dB in tone-level difference to detect a change. I think that you are right on the point with the A3 woofer in a AR11 box.
In spite the fact that the human ear are not that sensitive, I did hear a difference between the four woofers.
I will try to give the AR91 woofer more "low frequence massage" with a poweramp and hear if anything happens.
Sorry I've not got around to posting some pictures of them till now, funny how life gets in the way.
Since replacing the drivers I've not done anything except remove some velcro pads the previous owner nailed into the corners, I just got the last of the nails out and you can see the holes in the images below. I'm thinking of filling them up with some dark filler then seeing how they look and assessing how to disguise the blemishes from there.
I didn't receive any original grilles for them, the pads added were for larger grilles that I've discarded. I bought some hardboard today for making new grilles as shown in the third picture but I've yet to find measurements for cutting out the inner section.
I can obviously take an approximation from looking at pictures of the originals but if anyone has measurements or a technical drawing that would be much appreciated.
I ordered (edit) 18 count Wichelt linen which has yet to arrive, I'm hoping I can get the hardboard in shape by the time it does.
Finally, the only other question I have is does anyone know where I could get replacement crossover caps cheaply in the UK? Everywhere I've looked is hella expensive.
Thanks!
http://i.imgur.com/iDktO9e.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BBgENE3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KcVzFh7.jpg
Since replacing the drivers I've not done anything except remove some velcro pads the previous owner nailed into the corners, I just got the last of the nails out and you can see the holes in the images below. I'm thinking of filling them up with some dark filler then seeing how they look and assessing how to disguise the blemishes from there.
I didn't receive any original grilles for them, the pads added were for larger grilles that I've discarded. I bought some hardboard today for making new grilles as shown in the third picture but I've yet to find measurements for cutting out the inner section.
I can obviously take an approximation from looking at pictures of the originals but if anyone has measurements or a technical drawing that would be much appreciated.
I ordered (edit) 18 count Wichelt linen which has yet to arrive, I'm hoping I can get the hardboard in shape by the time it does.
Finally, the only other question I have is does anyone know where I could get replacement crossover caps cheaply in the UK? Everywhere I've looked is hella expensive.
Thanks!
http://i.imgur.com/iDktO9e.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BBgENE3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KcVzFh7.jpg
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.