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AR3a restoration.
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Old 6th January 2013, 10:06 AM   #31
speakerdoctor is offline speakerdoctor  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leakstereo20 View Post
When you say 2 sided...you mean walnut veneer on the inside of the cabinet ? Expensive! Cabinetmakers normally uses a cheap wood type for the inside of the cabinet . This is necessary when the cabinet factory under pressure warms the veneer on both sides of the woodplate, done to avoid any bending of the wooden panel.

Have you ever seen a pair of AR1W's or AR3a in rosewood?
I have just bought rosewood veneer for 175 US$.
I hobe that I can convert my AR3a pair in light birchwood into a beautiful dark pair in rosewood

Rgds. Kim
IIRC, that pair of 1W's in my mirror image picture are rosewood.
Yes, there was veneer on the insides as well as the outside.

Bean counters=accountants (who worry about cost to manufacture)
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Old 6th January 2013, 10:20 AM   #32
Gudmund is offline Gudmund  Iceland
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Originally Posted by phivates View Post
60+ years ago the bean counters were not so much in charge.
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Old 6th January 2013, 10:40 AM   #33
Leakstereo20 is offline Leakstereo20  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speakerdoctor View Post
IIRC, that pair of 1W's in my mirror image picture are rosewood.
Yes, there was veneer on the insides as well as the outside.

Bean counters=accountants (who worry about cost to manufacture)
Sorry , I could not see on the picture that your 1W's had rosewood veneer.

A bit off topic: In Europe we call rosewood : "Palisander" ....I found this:

" Rosewood is the commonest common name for the genus dalbergia. Yet some woods are often referred to as rosewood that do not belong to the genus dalbergia (african or bolivian rosewood).
The same seems to apply with palisander and jacaranda outside the US. References to Rio Palisander (as well as Rio rosewood) generally refer to Brazilian rosewood (dalbergia nigra). Jacaranda Pardo appears to generally refer to machaerium (which may be "bolivian rosewood")."


I payed for 35 year old Rio Palisander. We do not have permission to cut down rosewood trees the next 80Śr as I understand it, because of too much tree felling.
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Old 6th January 2013, 10:44 AM   #34
speakerdoctor is offline speakerdoctor  United States
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Well, leakstereo, please do share pictures of your cabinets after you have finished applying the Palisander to your cabinets! Would love to see them and thanks for sharing the Rosewood information.
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Old 6th January 2013, 11:05 AM   #35
Leakstereo20 is offline Leakstereo20  Denmark
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Originally Posted by speakerdoctor View Post
Well, leakstereo, please do share pictures of your cabinets after you have finished applying the Palisander to your cabinets! Would love to see them and thanks for sharing the Rosewood information.
Too many projects here...but I will try to get back with some pictures later. Exept from the palisander veneer, I will try to keep the old AR3a birch close to the original layout. The other AR3a pair of mine was converted to the "improved" layout because of cabinets in very bad condition.
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Old 6th January 2013, 11:37 AM   #36
Leakstereo20 is offline Leakstereo20  Denmark
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Default AR3a the most powerful bass?

I asked the following question to some experts :

Does the 200003 11" woofers from AR91 have slightly higher Fo....say 22Hz ( I think we got 14Hz or 16Hz on the AR3a woofers), or is it just because the AR91 woofers were hardly used and the spider were less flexible? The 200003 woofer from AR91 has the "smaller" fiber woodring of approx. 7mm. ?

And I received two answers:

"You are correct. Later AR 12 inch woofers had a somewhat stiffer suspension and an original Fs over 20hz. Earlier woofers had more compliant suspensions, and an original Fs of around 18hz or less. Fs of 14hz or 15hz indicates some wear, but will provide the deeper response you describe...at the expense of some power handling capability."

"Yes,the 3a woofer produces the most bass and the AR-11 woofer produces a little less bass and the AR-91 produces a little bit less than the AR-11 woofer."

The AR11 sounds a bit more "open" , because the woofer produces higher frequences and a little less bass.!...is it the spider , change of the magnet field strenght , weight of the papercone or a combination of all three factors ? ....we have to measure the woofers .
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Old 6th January 2013, 11:52 AM   #37
speakerdoctor is offline speakerdoctor  United States
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You got a bunch of good answers. The older 3a woofers spec is 18 hz. The 14-16 hz you quoted are sometimes found in the earliest woofers that have tired spiders and surrounds.

18 hz isn't that far from 22. IMO, in the grand scheme of things and with the dynamic nature of music, you won't notice a significant difference in the sound; assuming you put a 200003 woofer in a vintage 3a cabinet. However, as others have pointed out, all things are not equal in the more modern AR's vs the 3a.
If you were to put a vintage 3a woofer in an AR11 or 91 with a #7 or #9 coil in series, that would be a good experiment. Then conduct a blind test. I suspect you won't be able to tell the difference.
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Last edited by speakerdoctor; 6th January 2013 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 6th January 2013, 12:45 PM   #38
Leakstereo20 is offline Leakstereo20  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speakerdoctor View Post
You got a bunch of good answers. The older 3a woofers spec is 18 hz. The 14-16 hz you quoted are sometimes found in the earliest woofers that have tired spiders and surrounds.

18 hz isn't that far from 22. IMO, in the grand scheme of things and with the dynamic nature of music, you won't notice a significant difference in the sound; assuming you put a 200003 woofer in a vintage 3a cabinet. However, as others have pointed out, all things are not equal in the more modern AR's vs the 3a.
If you were to put a vintage 3a woofer in an AR11 or 91 with a #7 or #9 coil in series, that would be a good experiment. Then conduct a blind test. I suspect you won't be able to tell the difference.
Many years ago I heard a 20 Hz sinustone 30 metres away from the woofer which was placed on a table in a auditorium....that was a deep sound barely audible to the human ear.
So yes..there are not that much difference between 18 Hz or 22 Hz, and the human ear needs more than a few of dB in tone-level difference to detect a change. I think that you are right on the point with the A3 woofer in a AR11 box.
In spite the fact that the human ear are not that sensitive, I did hear a difference between the four woofers.
I will try to give the AR91 woofer more "low frequence massage" with a poweramp and hear if anything happens.
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Old 28th April 2013, 01:02 PM   #39
SatinMill is offline SatinMill  United Kingdom
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Sorry I've not got around to posting some pictures of them till now, funny how life gets in the way.

Since replacing the drivers I've not done anything except remove some velcro pads the previous owner nailed into the corners, I just got the last of the nails out and you can see the holes in the images below. I'm thinking of filling them up with some dark filler then seeing how they look and assessing how to disguise the blemishes from there.

I didn't receive any original grilles for them, the pads added were for larger grilles that I've discarded. I bought some hardboard today for making new grilles as shown in the third picture but I've yet to find measurements for cutting out the inner section.

I can obviously take an approximation from looking at pictures of the originals but if anyone has measurements or a technical drawing that would be much appreciated.

I ordered (edit) 18 count Wichelt linen which has yet to arrive, I'm hoping I can get the hardboard in shape by the time it does.

Finally, the only other question I have is does anyone know where I could get replacement crossover caps cheaply in the UK? Everywhere I've looked is hella expensive.

Thanks!

http://i.imgur.com/iDktO9e.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BBgENE3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KcVzFh7.jpg

Last edited by SatinMill; 28th April 2013 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 28th April 2013, 01:14 PM   #40
speakerdoctor is offline speakerdoctor  United States
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14 CT seems a bit too open a weave. Most AR restorers get the 18 CT Wachelt. You may find you can see some of the shiny bits behind the grille with 14 CT and have to resort to adding a layer of fine black scrim like that done commercially with vintage Advent grilles that had 16 CT linen.
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