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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 27th September 2011, 12:59 AM   #21
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What did you think about the reproduction of brass with this speaker?

One thing a lot of people tend to note with extremely wide midrange directivity, is that close enough to walls in any moderately reverberant space, brass just sounds too strong.
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Old 27th September 2011, 05:21 AM   #22
boris81 is offline boris81  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLeeEV View Post
What did you think about the reproduction of brass with this speaker?

One thing a lot of people tend to note with extremely wide midrange directivity, is that close enough to walls in any moderately reverberant space, brass just sounds too strong.
Hmmm, I can't really say I've heard a brass band through these yet, it's just not on my playlist. I will have to get back at you later.

I don't think brass is meant to be played in small rooms to begin with. I guess it will depend more on the recording in this case. A quiet recording space and large dynamics should sound great because the listening space creates a nice ambiance. A busy recording might not do so great but I don't know. Do you want to give me suggestions to try out?
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Old 27th September 2011, 06:59 AM   #23
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The Seas 27TFFNC-G possibly would've done better for you. Minimal flange, decent distortion, good sensitivity. Of course, a 1" diaphragm beams slightly earlier than a 3/4" does, but at that frequency a lot of the sound gets absorbed immediately anyway.

How loud do you listen to it?

I assume you listen to them on stands? Can you detect any hints from the speaker that one frequency band is omni while the other is half?

Last edited by 454Casull; 27th September 2011 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 27th September 2011, 05:00 PM   #24
boris81 is offline boris81  United States
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Originally Posted by 454Casull View Post
The Seas 27TFFNC-G possibly would've done better for you. Minimal flange, decent distortion, good sensitivity. Of course, a 1" diaphragm beams slightly earlier than a 3/4" does, but at that frequency a lot of the sound gets absorbed immediately anyway.
My primary tweeter choice was the ScanSpeak Illuminator D2004/6020 because of the small size and deep low end. If the current prices hold I won't be upgrading any time soon.

I did an experiment to evaluate how the high end dispersion affects the sound. The DSP lets me switch different setups on the fly so I tried the original 3-way vs. no tweeter and running the SS10F fullrange. I was surprised to learn that the difference was indeed minimal and I became a believer in FAST designs (Fullrange And Subwoofer Techonology). The 3-way sounded a bit more airy and had more substance to the presentation but it was more of a subtle improvement than a substantial one.


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How loud do you listen to it?
I don't have an SPL meter but I'd say I listen moderately loud. I won't be able to have a conversation with a person across the room but I would be able to hear them if they sat on the couch with me.


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Originally Posted by 454Casull View Post
I assume you listen to them on stands? Can you detect any hints from the speaker that one frequency band is omni while the other is half?
Yes, that is my most pressing problem at this point. Here are 3 typical ungated unequalized measurements from different locations in the room. Blue is the sweet spot and the rest are points closer and further from the sidewall.
bass-27-41.png

As you can see trouble starts at around 600Hz and there are major problems at 100Hz and 50Hz. At the moment I'm using a sub and EQ which makes the situation considerably better but I won't call it a final solution. I'm looking into reworking it to use a U-Frame cardioid at the bottom end but I probably won't have anything working for a long time. I welcome any ideas for improvement.
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Old 27th September 2011, 07:44 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by boris81 View Post
My primary tweeter choice was the ScanSpeak Illuminator D2004/6020 because of the small size and deep low end. If the current prices hold I won't be upgrading any time soon.
You will get more volume displacement with a 1" vs a 3/4", though. 4.5 cm^2 Sd vs ~7.5 - that's a ~50% increase right there.
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Old 7th March 2012, 02:42 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by boris81 View Post

As you can see trouble starts at around 600Hz and there are major problems at 100Hz and 50Hz. At the moment I'm using a sub and EQ which makes the situation considerably better but I won't call it a final solution. I'm looking into reworking it to use a U-Frame cardioid at the bottom end but I probably won't have anything working for a long time. I welcome any ideas for improvement.
I would start with stacking your room corners full of 705 or such in triangles, if you haven't got bass trapping already.

Very nice looking speakers you have there!!! Congrats!!

p.s. good name as well.....another Boris here....not many around....;-)
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Old 7th March 2012, 03:27 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by boris81 View Post
I welcome any ideas for improvement.
I would go dipole. Less room interaction and simpler to build than cardiod. Plus you already have the DSP and triamp to make driving a dipole easy.
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Old 7th March 2012, 04:25 PM   #28
boris81 is offline boris81  United States
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Originally Posted by karloff70 View Post
I would start with stacking your room corners full of 705 or such in triangles, if you haven't got bass trapping already.

Very nice looking speakers you have there!!! Congrats!!

p.s. good name as well.....another Boris here....not many around....;-)
Cheers Boris and thank you!
Bass traps will certainly improve my situation but I fear the WAF will be impossible to overcome
Also I believe the approach of minimizing the speaker's interactions with the room is the better one opposed to tweaking the room to accommodate the speaker.

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I would go dipole. Less room interaction and simpler to build than cardiod. Plus you already have the DSP and triamp to make driving a dipole easy.
To be completely honest I don't have much experience with open baffle and although I think I understand the concepts well it's hard to know which will sound better. I plan on running some side by side comparisons of dipole and cardioid in my living room and making a decision based on that. I have some interesting ideas and now that spring is setting in I plan on starting to cut some mdf soon.
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Old 18th May 2012, 05:40 PM   #29
legezer is offline legezer  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by boris81 View Post
Bass traps will certainly improve my situation but I fear the WAF will be impossible to overcome
Also I believe the approach of minimizing the speaker's interactions with the room is the better one opposed to tweaking the room to accommodate the speaker.
It's not about tweaking the room to accomodate the speaker the room has standing waves and ANY speaker as long as it's producing bass, that bass will meet the same comb filtering. You'd be amazed how effective a few sheets of the right insulation in the right places can be
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:53 PM   #30
boris81 is offline boris81  United States
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Originally Posted by legezer View Post
It's not about tweaking the room to accomodate the speaker the room has standing waves and ANY speaker as long as it's producing bass, that bass will meet the same comb filtering. You'd be amazed how effective a few sheets of the right insulation in the right places can be
Thank you, I watched some videos on the topic recently that confirm what you are saying.
Red Spade Audio: Room treatment video demos
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