Duntech Sovereign, Totem 1 org.

[ro9397]

The above speakers employ Dynaudio drivers. I think both are classics, superb by any metric. Madisound is a permanent fixture for reliable DIY and they happily supplied and recommended Dynaudio till Dynaudio dropped from DIY. I never heard negative comments about either model, though I'm sure some like them less than I did.

I very much admire Zaph Audio's contribution to DIY, and want to hear any of his properly implemented designs at the very first opportunity. John wrote: "...Dynaudio and Focal - poor performers..." 95% down at THIS page. Consistent with John's opinion I've heard many commercial Focal systems and was always underwhelmed.

Any light shed on the apparent contradiction above is appreciated. I'm sure it could simply be a matter of different taste.

[DrDyna]

Originally Posted by ro9397

I'm sure it could simply be a matter of different taste.

I read through what Zaph wrote and it doesn't seem like taste figured into it. He seems to lean more toward price-to-performance ratio and I think that some of the "hot snot" drivers don't offer performance that offsets their price tag.

If you can get a $50 driver that offers 95% of the performance of a $300 driver, or even worse, no noticeable improvement, what are you really spending money on?

Many entry level high-end electronics companies have built their names on this idea. Why spend $20,000 on an amplifier when you can get a $1500 one that offers nearly all of the performance. Is there really $12,000 worth of difference between an Acurus A-250 and a Krell KSA-250S?

[ro9397]

Yes, I agree with all, it makes perfect sense. Except John's "poor performers" phrase is quite black and white, only objective, not subjective relative to value. The following phrase is "not worth half their cost", which certainly seems far more reasonable and well within the range of something I could agree with looking at John's Herculean list of driver test results, simply incredible!

Again, to be perfectly clear: I have no axe to grind anywhere, only trying to make sense of my experience vs. Zaph's apparently great wisdom (no sarcasm).

I'm the first audio value lover, having traded a $7500 preamp for something pretty widely available at eBay for about $200 (they sound identical to me, and I'm quite picky). After spending about $1900 on Dynaudio drivers I'm the first to admit there might be lower cost for the same performance, but I've never seen such that so easily works with low-order Xo slopes of the minimum phase variety, which I far prefer vs. the alternatives.

I'm willing to drive some distance to hear any of Zaph's higher quality properly implemented designs.

[DrDyna]

Originally Posted by ro9397

Yes, I agree with all, it makes perfect sense. Except John's "poor performers" phrase is quite black and white, only objective, not subjective relative to value. The following phrase is "not worth half their cost", which certainly seems far more reasonable and well within the range of something I could agree with looking at John's Herculean list of driver test results, simply incredible!

Again, to be perfectly clear: I have no axe to grind anywhere, only trying to make sense of my experience vs. Zaph's apparently wisdom (not one whit of sarcasm).

I'm the first audio value love, having traded a $7500 preamp for something pretty widely available at eBay for about $200 (they sound identical to me, and I'm quite picky). After having spent about $1500 on Dynaudio drivers I'm also the first to admit there could easily be better value, maybe even lower cost for the same performance, but I've never seen such that is so easily works with such low-order Xo slopes of the minimum phase variety, which I far prefer vs. the alternatives.

I think his "not worth half their cost" statement can be justified by assuming that a very expensive driver, say, $250 could be considered to "not justify half it's cost" if it fails to out-perform a driver of half of it's cost, such as one that cost $125. If you get a $100 driver that gives you all the performance of a $250 one, then you could reasonably say the $250 one isn't worth half it's cost.

[Inductor]

Originally Posted by ro9397

...Zaph's apparently great wisdom (no sarcasm).

There's a lot of things that Zaph says that I don't agree, so good for you. Without saying that I respect his work. I have Focal drivers, I don't know if it makes any difference for you. They were bought in Europe so that may impact in price/distribution. I can tell you that also a lot of people in this forum love metallic (cone) drivers with funny frequency harmonics and resonances difficult to control in the xover. So, that's all a matter of taste and experience and Zaph, besides of a business man, has also a lot.