A Linn Isobarik PMS clone for the 21st century? - Page 4 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28th July 2011, 08:04 PM   #31
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pretoria
What I want to establish is if the Linn Isobarik topology
  • two times three-way,
  • isobaric woofers,
  • one firing forwards
  • one midrange/tweeter pair firing upwards,
  • sub-enclosures for the midrange drivers
will produce a pleasant sounding speaker. Cloning every detail to produce an exact copy does not hold much appeal. If it turns out to be just another speaker design, at least then I've scratched my itch.

I'm open to other suggestions. Perhaps something a little more conventional, along the lines of the Keltik suggested above? The main thing is the isobaric woofers. That's the bit I'm really keen to try out.

I have seen the Pink Fish site. I've gathered some of the info that I do have from there, but I haven't scoured it in detail. Perhaps its time to take another look.

Last edited by ingenieus; 28th July 2011 at 08:09 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2011, 12:23 AM   #32
Shaun is offline Shaun  South Africa
diyAudio Member
 
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
I believe that the reason for the mixed reviews of this loudspeaker is beause the configuration relies a lot on reflected sound. Different listening environments would then give the speaker a totally different character. More so than with a conventional layout.

I remember the adverts for the Linn ISOBARIK. I think this speaker was mostly about Linn having something different to offer, more than out-and-out performance. Bose: "direct/reflecting"; BIC: BIC Venturi with the tapered port; Technics: honeycomb diaphragms; Yamaha: ear-shaped speakers; B&W: golf-ball effect ports. It's mostly gimmickery.
__________________
Shaun Onverwacht
|||||||||| DON'T PANIC ||||||||||
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2011, 02:28 AM   #33
diyAudio Member
 
SOUND_Rays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Default LINN ISOBARIC PMS - NAIM SIX PACK ACTIVE . .

@ ingenieus. Shaun,

If You'll ever have a chance to evaluate the real LINN PMS ISOBARIC-NAIM SIX PACK ACTIVE speaker setup with front end loaded with LINN LP 12 in its full (best drive, tonearm + internal wires, lo MC cartridge) pack, playing back a Vinyl records from 80s, with the system fully tuned by a trained LINN guy then You'll for ever change Yours standards for a Stereo only playback system for sure. From my own experience I can only say that no one 5.1 (digital) setup play-back chain can fairly compete to the previously mentioned - 2 CH vinyl play-back chain - playing back the LP disc produced in 80s with the real music recorded (classical, Jazz, instrumental, vocal) consisting of real instruments, real natural dynamics recorded & unprocessed - Direct Cut LP discs... yes this was way before the computer copy-paste compressed sound invention and CD killed music arise. Such a play-back chain is a totally different world with totally different emotional qualities. Even todays the most technically advanced DSD or XDSD recording - playback equipment can't come close to the old 2 inch Studer Tape machines at 78 ips ... Mr. Tim De Paravicini is the guy who knows more about.., Studer simply leave all the current digitally inventions way behind . . I have some 6 Direct Cutted LP discs at my collection. ( The real Direct Cutted - Orchestra is playing live and 20 Studer LP cutters cut groves directly to 200g Vinyl blanks. Only 100 LP discs produced this way and the orchestra has to play 5 times the same scores to achieve this. Setup: Mics ---> Mixing Desk ---> Studer LP master Cutting machines, even 2 inch tape machine wasn't in the signal chain). I have listen such a discs on a previously mentioned LINN-NAIM SIX pack system and till today I was not able to hear any system playback chain sounding better in terms of a NATURAL & LIFE LIKE SOUND, stage and dynamics this vintage 2 CH playback chain can produce. The only YAMAHA was able to play back the similar sound with theirs 10000 series CD, preamp-power amp and with theirs top anniversary all berilium 3 way+1 (woofer) a two piece 4 way speaker system. I hear this system once but the source was Yamaha CDX 10000 CD player and the comparation isn't possible at all because of lacking the sound informations due to limits of a CD - missing supersonic frequencies above 20 KHz. The Linn Isobaric speakers mentioned here on this thread are only a single link in a play-back chain and they need to be in a system which is dedicated & specifically fine tuned to them and to real music. Only then they can shine singing. If only a single part from the playback chain is missing they will newer sing - they will only play . . .

Andrew
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2011, 05:28 AM   #34
Shaun is offline Shaun  South Africa
diyAudio Member
 
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUND_Rays View Post
... The Linn Isobaric speakers mentioned here on this thread are only a single link in a play-back chain and they need to be in a system which is dedicated & specifically fine tuned to them and to real music. Only then they can shine singing. If only a single part from the playback chain is missing they will newer sing - they will only play . . .

Andrew
I have no doubt that there exists an ideal setup (speaker placement and room acoustics included) in which this speaker will beat all others hands-down. I just think that it is more difficult to emulate that performance in a different room with this design, comparatively speaking.
__________________
Shaun Onverwacht
|||||||||| DON'T PANIC ||||||||||
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2011, 07:22 PM   #35
diyAudio Member
 
Brett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUND_Rays View Post
If You'll ever have a chance to evaluate the real LINN PMS ISOBARIC-NAIM SIX PACK ACTIVE speaker setup with front end loaded with LINN LP 12 in its full (best drive, tonearm + internal wires, lo MC cartridge) pack, playing back a Vinyl records from 80s, with the system fully tuned by a trained LINN guy then You'll for ever change Yours standards for a Stereo only playback system for sure.
Having actually owned this, I would disagree. It was good, but I have since heard better; much, much better.
One can stop drinking the kool aid any time one chooses.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2011, 07:34 PM   #36
Toaster is offline Toaster  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: South East England
Tastes differ. I heard full Linn/ Naim systems including Isobariks, Saras and Kans several times in the 80s at shows, in shops and home systems and was never really convinced. The active Isobariks were the ones I liked the most, unsurprisingly, but I really didn't like the Sara at all. I'm interested to see positive comments on the imaging, since although the Isobariks certainly filled a room well, and the bass was very solid, they always sounded rather 'diffuse' (or 'spacious', to put a positive spin on it), in an artificial way, to me. Reminded me of a good quality PA system more than anything else. As Shaun says, if you set a system like that up in the right room with the right support equipment- and probably listen to the 'right' music and have the 'right' tastes- it may be that nothing else will do. The odds are probably worse than a more conventional system that you'll like what you end up with, but more power to you for giving it a go!
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2011, 10:33 PM   #37
diyAudio Member
 
SOUND_Rays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Default The new active design with an old direction to target ?

@ Brett,

I have mentioned my sound impressions only for the particularly fine tuned PMS based system and with the exclusive mentioned front end with only the direct cut LP masters played back in a very typical 4,5m X 6m room with no special treatment at all, so any other combinaion which only slightly differ from mentioned one cannot compare.
I was each year on the best Hi-End shows in EU and I haven't yet have a chance to hear more lifelike & with such a natural non compressed (by the whole system in mind) dynamic sound, but yes, I heard more than hundred different trendy fashion sounds which they mostly represent the sound for the demonstrators abilities to tune the sound on theirs own preferences.
I daily work with real live classical orchestra music and that exactly setup I mention is the closest approximation what I hear in real. I'm not comparing my feel of a real live sound to any other Hi-End fashion style sound at all.

@ ingenieus

The project . . .
Maybe it would be great to go for an active speaker design approach - The Tang_Band circular bass driver will nicelly fit here - (lovest fs & height of only 76mm.) or oval bass (bit higher fs & its height ... - not suitable.) It would be good to wire the bass drivers in series to get an aprox. 6R drive, - for the mid sect. the Audiotechnology C-Quenze 5" - 15 H 52 06 13 SDC will be sound-neutrality vise a good choice and for the tweeter a Hiquphon (D2094-8708-03) would be a good match, there are several other models but this one is very promising.
Then make a plan for a go for a LINN stile enclsure design or make a dcision related from best evaluated & liked designs and go for a novel design with implemented org. Isobaric bass loading principle.
To achieve the target sound would be much easier in an active system eg. using nice fet sounding amps for the Hi and Midrange section and a much powerful Bjt amp for the Bass section. For the active freq. dividers would be best to go with simple discrete modules thus avoiding the very lifeless + - 12V IC oriented designs but instead chose much higher + - 24V discrete modules passing throe much greater headroom - perceptible dynamics.
Please go for as much possible wide options choices and at the end chose the most suitable to You.

Andrew
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2011, 07:22 AM   #38
Shaun is offline Shaun  South Africa
diyAudio Member
 
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUND_Rays View Post
To achieve the target sound would be much easier in an active system eg. using nice fet sounding amps for the Hi and Midrange section and a much powerful Bjt amp for the Bass section. For the active freq. dividers would be best to go with simple discrete modules thus avoiding the very lifeless + - 12V IC oriented designs but instead chose much higher + - 24V discrete modules passing throe much greater headroom - perceptible dynamics.
Please go for as much possible wide options choices and at the end chose the most suitable to You.

Andrew
I agree in essence with Andrew's comments here. An active crossover, such as the MiniDSP, would provide maximum tweakability, and therefore allow the loudspeaker to be tuned to a particular room.

There is certainly something attractive about the sound produced by a loudspeaker that produces a diffuse sound. I have enjoyed speakers that provide pinpoint imaging, as well as ones that throw a "wall of sound" at you. I don't know if this Linn can be put into either of those categories, though ("diffuse" might be a third). I think it approaches the Bose 901 (which I have also enjoyed), whilst retaining the direct-radiating approach of a conventional speaker. So, maybe it does a bit of everything. The trick is to get the mix right. So - by all means - go for it, but make it flexible would be my advice.
__________________
Shaun Onverwacht
|||||||||| DON'T PANIC ||||||||||
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2011, 07:35 AM   #39
diyAudio Member
 
Brett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
An active crossover, such as the MiniDSP
Even the suggestion of such will cause flat earthers to have aneurysms.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2011, 11:04 AM   #40
Shaun is offline Shaun  South Africa
diyAudio Member
 
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett View Post
Even the suggestion of such will cause flat earthers to have aneurysms.
Hee hee.

The level of knowledge in the audio DIY community is orders of magnitude higher today than it was back then when this speaker was on the market. And the problems that gave digital a bad name then have since been mastered. DIYers even have better and more sophisticated tools available now. I
__________________
Shaun Onverwacht
|||||||||| DON'T PANIC ||||||||||
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
21st century tube? Non-Vacuum Trout Tubes / Valves 4 1st February 2009 03:18 PM
PMS plus Avalon clone equals ??? fsammet Multi-Way 9 5th May 2007 08:07 PM
alpheus or PMS? stephen Bishop Multi-Way 0 28th October 2006 04:38 AM
Dantax century Luckyme Multi-Way 0 14th March 2004 04:51 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:01 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2