Any suitable woofers for use without an inductor?

[BHTX]

..Besides the Dynaco A25 or Seas A26RE4 (H1411). Anything 6" to 10" would be of interest, but would definitely prefer an 8". Must have a 2nd order roll-off, as close and smooth as possible, for an LR2 right around 2 KHz (-6 dB @ 2 KHz). Sensitivity must be above 90 dB @ 1W/1m, preferably 92-95 dB, as it'd be crossed to a dome in a waveguide with a single cap. Low to mid Qts is mandatory.. It'd be put in a small sealed enclosure for 0.5 to 0.7 Qts without any other high-pass filter, met below with multiple subwoofers with a digital LR2 low-pass, or possibly 1st order, depending (probably end up with different crossover points and slopes on the multiple subs).

I know this might seem picky and asking for too much, but that's the whole reason for this post, as I need help finding the right driver that meets this criteria (if one even exists). Oh, and to top it all off, low cost is priority, as there's a very good chance it'll end up being the heart of a large multi-channel system (9-11 channels, not including subwoofers).

Not really interested in discussion regarding why one should or shouldn't use this approach. It's something I've personally never tried before, but I see no reason why it couldn't work well if done carefully. Rather than searching for mids with good upper extension/high roll-off frequency (and the trade-offs that go along with that), and then trying to compensate and deal with the phase differences from that upper cut-off, only to add a huge inductor to the driver.. why not find the perfect driver and run it wide open?, then use a simple series 1st order electrical on the tweeter for a nice LR2 acoustic.

Meanwhile, the search continues..

[chlorofille]

Maybe Jantzen Audio JA8008 would fit the bill...

[tinitus]

Originally Posted by BHTX

...... but would definitely prefer an 8". Must have a 2nd order roll-off, as close and smooth as possible, for an LR2 right around 2 KHz (-6 dB @ 2 KHz).

it might work, with the right driver

but I doubt you will find any with 2khz roll off
and if it does, its probably a low sensitivity woofer with muffled midrange

the suggested Jantzen looks like a good suggestion
my guess is xo point around 4khz, but only a guess

but even without series indutor, you will still have phase issues to deal with
its still a 2way
I suggest to use 6db/12db, with zobel
then you will at least have some 'tools' for fine adjustments
having nothing to adjust actually makes it all much harder

but no harm in trying, sure thing

btw, please remember you also have to deal with BSC issues
one way be using two woofers

[sreten]

Hi,

Simple fact is your ignoring the baffle step and baffle step compensation.
No-one AFAIK makes a suitable driver regarding what would be your target
response function, and not a prayer at those sensitivities, c/o components
will be needed inevitably. For loud 1st order on tweeters is not good at all.

http://professional.celestion.com/pro/pdf/TF0818.pdf
Decent value, cheapish £30, no real bass, suits small boxes.

rgds, sreten.

[tinitus]

http://www.monacor.de/produkte/lauts...artikelid=7376

[BHTX]

In case anyone has missed it, this is more along the lines of what I'm going for, except higher efficiency in an 8", and perhaps a slightly more accurate lowpass if at all possible.. https://www.madisound.com/store/prod...oducts_id=8638

It's my understanding that this sort of simple design was quite common a few decades ago. Still done in cheap systems out there today I'm sure, albeit very crudely.

Originally Posted by chlorofille

Maybe Jantzen Audio JA8008 would fit the bill...

Wouldn't work. Thanks though. Always kinda had a thing for that woofer. A bit pricey though.

Originally Posted by tinitus

it might work, with the right driver

but I doubt you will find any with 2khz roll off
and if it does, its probably a low sensitivity woofer with muffled midrange

the suggested Jantzen looks like a good suggestion
my guess is xo point around 4khz, but only a guess

but even without series indutor, you will still have phase issues to deal with
its still a 2way
I suggest to use 6db/12db, with zobel
then you will at least have some 'tools' for fine adjustments
having nothing to adjust actually makes it all much harder

but no harm in trying, sure thing

btw, please remember you also have to deal with BSC issues
one way be using two woofers

Agreed.

Originally Posted by sreten

Hi,

Simple fact is your ignoring the baffle step and baffle step compensation.
No-one AFAIK makes a suitable driver regarding what would be your target
response function, and not a prayer at those sensitivities, c/o components
will be needed inevitably. For loud 1st order on tweeters is not good at all.

http://professional.celestion.com/pro/pdf/TF0818.pdf
Decent value, cheapish £30, no real bass, suits small boxes.

rgds, sreten.

This is what I was afraid of, and pretty much sums up my thoughts, at least until I started thinking about the Seas H1411, and then wondered if there was any possibility that something similar existed with a more sensitive 8".

In regards to the tweeter comment, what about those like the Morel CAT378/MDT37? Still no single cap?
https://www.madisound.com/store/manuals/CAT378.pdf

Hadn't quite forgotten about BSC. By the way, wouldn't there be a point where BSC wouldn't be an issue? About what size would the baffle need to be?

Oh well. Maybe I'll just go for a big pile of Behringer B2031P's instead.

[Pano]

The Seas A26RE4 is the only one I know of that can do this easily, although you "might" gt away with it using a vintage Altec driver.

Why not the Seas? It's a good driver.

[DrDyna]

Originally Posted by Pano

The Seas A26RE4 is the only one I know of that can do this easily, although you "might" gt away with it using a vintage Altec driver.

Why not the Seas? It's a good driver.

*rubs chin thoughtfully...*

I bet that would be a great woofer to use with the big Heil AMT using a minimalist crossover on the tweeter only.

[BHTX]

Pano,

Was just hoping for something a little smaller and a bit more sensitive with a lower price tag. Just curious as to whether or not anything else was out there, as I've never really seen anything like it. I guess I got my answer.

[BHTX]

Originally Posted by DrDyna

*rubs chin thoughtfully...*

I bet that would be a great woofer to use with the big Heil AMT using a minimalist crossover on the tweeter only.

Nice idea. Might make a great 2-channel setup. How does the AMT handle a 1st order though? I seem to recall coming across a lot of instances of people damaging them, along with the need and availability of questionable replacement diaphragms.