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Old 4th June 2011, 01:32 AM   #21
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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I know it goes against everything we 'believe', or believe to know
but I think its best to keep an omni 'low profile'
I would say about one feet high, or half a meter, max
and not use any diffusers

to mount the drivers at listening height with diffusors seems to me contradicting to the very nature of omni design
kind of like forced directivity

and drivers do not need to be mounted on top of each other
maybe they actually should't
might be one of the usual mistakes

its already here clear why its not going to be popular
no impressive 'looks', and too much like a Bose, or worse
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Old 4th June 2011, 01:46 AM   #22
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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btw, its funny tho that my experiment clearly showed that floor positioned drivers had great and precise imaging/soundstage
and even more funny that singers etc were positioned with the correct height

and that with all sorts of things placed around
furniture, boxes, project, etc
far from optimal
placed close to walls
and below a big bookshelf
probably couldn't be worse
but it still worked

and the 3way xo, even more silly
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Old 4th June 2011, 01:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
and even more funny that singers etc were positioned with the correct height
I hear the same effect from line arrays that contain 8 x 4" drivers, in the center of the wall.

Height of positioning is perceived as reflection from floor during recording session. When some studios put deep carpet on floor in order to silence steps this information is lost.
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Old 4th June 2011, 03:04 AM   #24
bigdh31 is offline bigdh31  United States
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I have a pair of Ohm 1000's and am very pleased with them. I find it hard to switch back to conventional speakers.
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Old 4th June 2011, 03:08 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
several reasons I believe
first, most of pros and also audiophiles prefer unnatural sound of front firing speakers, and there is a marketing trend set against omni as something radically different from the front firing mainsteram
second, prevailing acoustical theories cannot explain behaviour of an omni in a room, and lack of theory results in imperfect omni speakers because manufacturers don't know what they are doing really
third, omnis need different room interface than front firing speakers and rarely they are set up proprely
forth, people are mentally uhm uhm er... conservative and reluctant to try things different
fifth, there are some omni speakers that are quite popular, at least in the audiophile DIY community - Plutos for example, in spite of the fact that Linkwitz doesn't know either how this omni works and why ;-)

regards,
graaf
I agree with much of what you say. I think the failed Bose 901 design did a lot to deter audiophiles from showing interest in anything but highly directional speakers. Even wide dispersion tweeters have lost favor. Despite mountains of different tweeters on the market, there are no acceptable substitutes for wide dispersion models such as AR's 3/4" or Roy Allison own brand designs. The current market vogue and expectations are for highly directional tweeters that beam their sound. These often sound shrill to me and very unnatural. They also require you to be in a "sweet spot" to get the best they have to offer. When you listen to real musical instruments, most are nearly omnidirectional radiators or indirect radiators and sound very different.
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Old 4th June 2011, 05:29 AM   #26
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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I think for the consumer sector it's that little domes are omni enough for most. The great time of the omnis was when there had to be done something for enhancing the dispersion of the drivers anyway. And among audiophiles pinpoint imaging has become a criterion for quality.
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Old 4th June 2011, 12:22 PM   #27
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Stu Hegemann was an early proponent of omni in NA (see Morrison Audio fine audio speakers and electronics.),
yes, Hegeman designed Lowther speaker-based Harman Citation X: http://www.roger-russell.com/eico/citationxstu.htm

before (?) there was also Lowther the Ace and after JBL Aquarius and others

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radugazon View Post
is the more popular pluto a full range omni ? Hum, not that much. A flooder with frontal tweeter.
perhaps such a flooder is omni enough?

perhaps as gainphile says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gainphile View Post
they are omni to 3.5 khz. This is uniform enough
as to the room interface
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radugazon View Post
An other caveat for the omnis, is that they sound better in wide rooms where the reflections will be delayed enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gainphile View Post
As dipoles they really need space, and I guess one of the factors why they're not pupolar? Most people/wife wants speakers out of the way.
this is probably true with regard to typical omni, on the other hand a short flooder can work well also against the wall and is very room-placement-tolerant in general

as tinitus observes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
btw, its funny tho that my experiment clearly showed that floor positioned drivers had great and precise imaging/soundstage
and even more funny that singers etc were positioned with the correct height

and that with all sorts of things placed around
furniture, boxes, project, etc
far from optimal
placed close to walls
and below a big bookshelf
probably couldn't be worse
but it still worked
yes indeed! behold the magic of the real (short) flooder!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
but I think its best to keep an omni 'low profile'
I would say about one feet high, or half a meter, max
absolutely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
and not use any diffusers

to mount the drivers at listening height with diffusors seems to me contradicting to the very nature of omni design
kind of like forced directivity
I agree, and mounting drivers on top of each other inevitably leads to this

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
its already here clear why its not going to be popular
no impressive 'looks', and too much like a Bose, or worse
on the other hand there were times and places when flooders were very popular - I mean Sweden and Carlsson/Sonab speakers in particular

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
I know it goes against everything we 'believe', or believe to know
yeah, that's the main problem
the second is that it goes against everything we know, according to common knowledge, too
therefore most direct-reflecting designs - Bose and others, more specialty like Shahinians or more mass consumer oriented like spherical speakers of JVC and Grundig - were hit-and-miss, mostly miss...
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Old 4th June 2011, 12:32 PM   #28
OllBoll is offline OllBoll  Sweden
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They were popular in Sweden, the whole Carlsson line was omnidirectional.

Personally I've built a clone of a speaker inspired by the Carlsson line, the pop box. That speaker solves the tweeter directonality problem by having multiple tweeters like this:

Click the image to open in full size.

Sound imaging is godlike compared to ordinary directional speakers, I will never be able to go back them... next project is to try to make a true omnidirectional open baffle speaker by placing a tweeter ring both on the front and at the back of the baffle =)

// Olle
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Old 4th June 2011, 12:41 PM   #29
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Answer to the OP's question: IMHO, the part of the reason is that it is hard to implement omnipole right. MBL 101 is close to being perfect implementation, but they costs a fortune.

So,
Omnipole = hard to make it right = expensive = lower popularity

Doug
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Old 4th June 2011, 01:11 PM   #30
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OllBoll View Post
Sound imaging is godlike compared to ordinary directional speakers
yes, very, I mean very well said! definitely godlike is the right word!

AudioPro has a model following Carlsson design principles:

http://www.audiopro.se/media.php?id_file=527

typical flooder, short, everything up-firing
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