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Old 15th June 2011, 10:30 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graaf View Post
am I to understand that You say that I haven't even a passing interest in accurate reproduction of recorded music in typical listening environments?

what's the point of insulting each other?
Graaf,

Sorry you take offense at my opinion.

I have no idea what you believe to be accurate reproduction of recorded music.
My concept of accurate reproduction is a system that reproduces music as close as possible to how it sounded when recorded and mixed down.
I have never heard of any mix engineers that use omni speakers for mix down, there are many good reasons why they are not used for critical listening.

Additional reverberation and comb filtering not in the original recording caused by mid and high frequency reflecting off back and side walls reduces coherency and accuracy of the reproduced recorded signal in the very frequency range the ears are most sensitive to those problems.
Those problems can be avoided by using speakers with directionality, making for more accurate reproduction of recorded music.

There is enough wrong with loudspeakers to start with, adding room reflections makes those problems worse.

Room reflections can mask speaker system problems.

There is nothing wrong with you or anyone else liking the "extra sauce" of multiple arrival times, I prefer to minimize, rather than increase reflections.

If I want to hear reflections from all around the room, I go whole hog and play music through a Leslie speaker, it adds FM and AM too.

Art
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Old 15th June 2011, 10:38 PM   #102
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
The idea is that in any of it's current iterations, it's terrible.
yes, that's the idea but not reality
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Old 15th June 2011, 11:00 PM   #103
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Additional reverberation and comb filtering not in the original recording caused by mid and high frequency reflecting off back and side walls reduces coherency and accuracy of the reproduced recorded signal in the very frequency range the ears are most sensitive to those problems.
(..)
There is enough wrong with loudspeakers to start with, adding room reflections makes those problems worse.
but what You say is oversimplification, at best

have You read Toole's "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms"?

http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduc.../dp/0240520092
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Old 15th June 2011, 11:11 PM   #104
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Me too.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs...ing-space.html

Omnis (at least bipoles) work well in my room -- actually almost any decent speaker does.

dave
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Old 15th June 2011, 11:38 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by graaf View Post
but what You say is oversimplification, at best
Oversimplification of what ?

Adding extra reverb by using an omni speaker reflecting off walls (and ceilings and floors if truly omni) is a fairly simple concept.

I am old enough to remember people using spring reverbs in home and even car applications. Now, many cheap and cheerful receivers have built in "concert hall" reverb and such.

Psychoacoustically, some people prefer these "enhancements" even though inaccurate, in that they add something not present in the recording.

You seem to be, to put it simply, one of those people.

Nothing wrong with that, but for me, I simply prefer to hear the reverberant field as recorded, with as little additional stuff as possible.
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Old 15th June 2011, 11:57 PM   #106
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I wonder how much is based on real experiences, or just based on heresay about it

I could just as well claim that even the worst omni design is still on par with 90% of all other speakers around
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Old 16th June 2011, 12:55 AM   #107
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Right, I think we could start a poll :

Who here has been already listening to omni speakers ?

and the subsidiary question could be "what do you think then"...from experience and not from readings.
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Old 16th June 2011, 05:08 AM   #108
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radugazon View Post
Right, I think we could start a poll :

Who here has been already listening to omni speakers ?

and the subsidiary question could be "what do you think then"...from experience and not from readings.
I'm sure I could go find some spare drivers in the basement and turn my mains into a battlecruiser of driver weaponry, bristling with drivers pointing this way and that, but I'm less likely to listen to it than I would be if I glued mirrors all around my television to make the picture bigger.
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Old 16th June 2011, 05:48 AM   #109
CLS is offline CLS  Taiwan
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A what? Battlecruiser? Is that your understanding of omni speakers?
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Old 16th June 2011, 06:05 AM   #110
graaf is offline graaf  Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Oversimplification of what ?
of complicated question of effects of reflections in a listening room

Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Adding extra reverb
(...)
using spring reverbs
(...)
cheerful receivers have built in "concert hall" reverb
what do you mean by reverb? Do You really mean something like "concert hall" reverb?

in that case are You aware of the difference between "concert hall" reverb and reflections in a listening room?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
You seem to be, to put it simply, one of those people.
well, once again things are not as they seem to be

Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Nothing wrong with that, but for me, I simply prefer to hear the reverberant field as recorded, with as little additional stuff as possible.
me too, me too, would You believe?

perhaps when some conditions are met there is simply no additional stuff that could cover what is recorded?
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