thanks for the warning Mr. Lojzek.. I know the xover point is quite low (1400 Hz for a tweeter Fs of 596 Hz). But since I will be using it in home environment, the volume would be quite low. In fact till date I have never exceeded 25% volume level on a 50 watt amp. If tweeters get blown, I will think about modifying xover and then replace the tweeters. because , currently the sound is very much enjoyable and pleasant... very very much better than the Phillips / Sony hi-fi (so called) systems that I own.
regards
prasi
spec data sheet of woofer:
8" (20 cm)
Impedance: 8 Ohms
Power capacity: 150 W Peak 100 W Program 75 W Continuous
Sensitivity: 91.4 dB / 1W 1m
Usable frequency range: 60 Hz ~ 4 kHz
Cone: Kevlar impregnated cellulose
Voice coil diameter: 1.6" / 38,8 mm
Voice coil material: 2 layers, thermally bonded copper wire Kapton former Nomex stiffener
Magmet diameter : 100-60-20 mm
Net weight lb. / kg: 7.4 lbs. / 3.4 kg
Znom (ohms) 8
Revc (ohms) 7,5
Sd (Square Meters) 0.335
BL (T/M) 7.97
Fo (Hz) 44.7
Vas (liters) 51.7
Cms (uM/N) 325.2
Mms (gm) 39.00
Qms 4.18
Qes 0.520
Qts 0.460
Xmax (mm) 2.5
Le (mH) 0.11
SPL (1W 1m) 91.4
No (%) 0.9%
Vd (cu. in. / ml) 5.1 / 84
Pmax (Watts pgm.) 150
Disp (cu. in. / ml) 83 / 1360
spec data sheet of tweeter:
DOME TWEETER
4" / 10 cm
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms
Minimum Impedance: 7.1 Ohms
DC Resistance: 6.8 Ohms
Power Capacity 1000 Hz to 20,000 Hz: 150 W peak 90 W program 60 W continuous using pink noise band limited from 1,000 Hz to 20 kHz (AES 2-1984)
Power Capacity 500 Hz to 20,000 Hz: 130 W peak 80 W program 50 W continuous
Sensitivity: 111 dB SPL 1 Watt at 1 meter
Nominal Efficiency: 30%
Frequency Response: 500 Hz to 20,000 Hz
Recommended Crossover: 1,000 Hz
Lowest Recommended Crossover: 500 Hz at 12 dB / Octave
Diaphragm: Commercially pure titanium – mila
Voice Coil Diameter: 4" / 101 mm
Voice Coil Material: Edge-wound aluminum ribbon with a composite bobbin
Magnet Diameter : 70-32-12 mm
Flux Density: 19,000 gauss (1.9T)
Dimensions: Standard: 4" (100 mm)D x 1.2”: (30 mm) H
hello everyone, i'm a new member. i'm from vietnam. i have some spec data sheet of speakers, i'm going to building crossover frequency 3 way, mid speaker no data. thus, i have to where crossover frequency that best sound, i try building 800Hz---> 7000Hz for 3 way( woofer: 800,,, mid: 800-7000,,, tweeter:7000) or 500Hz---->4200Hz. Could everyoney consulting this problem? Thank.
8" (20 cm)
Impedance: 8 Ohms
Power capacity: 150 W Peak 100 W Program 75 W Continuous
Sensitivity: 91.4 dB / 1W 1m
Usable frequency range: 60 Hz ~ 4 kHz
Cone: Kevlar impregnated cellulose
Voice coil diameter: 1.6" / 38,8 mm
Voice coil material: 2 layers, thermally bonded copper wire Kapton former Nomex stiffener
Magmet diameter : 100-60-20 mm
Net weight lb. / kg: 7.4 lbs. / 3.4 kg
Znom (ohms) 8
Revc (ohms) 7,5
Sd (Square Meters) 0.335
BL (T/M) 7.97
Fo (Hz) 44.7
Vas (liters) 51.7
Cms (uM/N) 325.2
Mms (gm) 39.00
Qms 4.18
Qes 0.520
Qts 0.460
Xmax (mm) 2.5
Le (mH) 0.11
SPL (1W 1m) 91.4
No (%) 0.9%
Vd (cu. in. / ml) 5.1 / 84
Pmax (Watts pgm.) 150
Disp (cu. in. / ml) 83 / 1360
spec data sheet of tweeter:
DOME TWEETER
4" / 10 cm
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohms
Minimum Impedance: 7.1 Ohms
DC Resistance: 6.8 Ohms
Power Capacity 1000 Hz to 20,000 Hz: 150 W peak 90 W program 60 W continuous using pink noise band limited from 1,000 Hz to 20 kHz (AES 2-1984)
Power Capacity 500 Hz to 20,000 Hz: 130 W peak 80 W program 50 W continuous
Sensitivity: 111 dB SPL 1 Watt at 1 meter
Nominal Efficiency: 30%
Frequency Response: 500 Hz to 20,000 Hz
Recommended Crossover: 1,000 Hz
Lowest Recommended Crossover: 500 Hz at 12 dB / Octave
Diaphragm: Commercially pure titanium – mila
Voice Coil Diameter: 4" / 101 mm
Voice Coil Material: Edge-wound aluminum ribbon with a composite bobbin
Magnet Diameter : 70-32-12 mm
Flux Density: 19,000 gauss (1.9T)
Dimensions: Standard: 4" (100 mm)D x 1.2”: (30 mm) H
hello everyone, i'm a new member. i'm from vietnam. i have some spec data sheet of speakers, i'm going to building crossover frequency 3 way, mid speaker no data. thus, i have to where crossover frequency that best sound, i try building 800Hz---> 7000Hz for 3 way( woofer: 800,,, mid: 800-7000,,, tweeter:7000) or 500Hz---->4200Hz. Could everyoney consulting this problem? Thank.
three way crossover help
hi I'm looking for some help in tweaking the sound of my three ways.
The drivers are scans 25W/8565-01, seas W17E-002 ,scans D2905/9900
I have been at speaker building for many years but the x-over is always the trickiest for myself.I had the x-over built through madi utilizing the LEAP process,I'm not getting the air or clarity (I know very subjective)that I was after.
I have two ways utilizing lesser components that are much transparent + providing better imaging.
Anyway I purchased a Behringer CX3400 disconnected the x-over in one cab and amped each driver individually through the Bh. The result was somewhat disappointing,the passive has much better high presentation and overall clarity.
I may be doing something wrong with the setting but am doubtful.Did I get the wrong active xover?
Thanks for any help!
Craig
hi I'm looking for some help in tweaking the sound of my three ways.
The drivers are scans 25W/8565-01, seas W17E-002 ,scans D2905/9900
I have been at speaker building for many years but the x-over is always the trickiest for myself.I had the x-over built through madi utilizing the LEAP process,I'm not getting the air or clarity (I know very subjective)that I was after.
I have two ways utilizing lesser components that are much transparent + providing better imaging.
Anyway I purchased a Behringer CX3400 disconnected the x-over in one cab and amped each driver individually through the Bh. The result was somewhat disappointing,the passive has much better high presentation and overall clarity.
I may be doing something wrong with the setting but am doubtful.Did I get the wrong active xover?
Thanks for any help!
Craig
Hello guys, noob here with a big piece of puzzle missing.
I decided to build my own speakers and go for the 4 way crossover after some good hours of reading.
But first I must thank to AlanB because everything started around his post.
It seamed that I had all the answers so I went down the track and start buying things. But now when I'm putting them together I discovered few new problems. "New" for me off course but anyway everything is new for me so .. please help
)
I understood how to build the crossovers and what's the role of every component. I understood how to wire the speakers in series or parallel to have a total impedance of X ohms. But those two schema don't work together when I try to design a final board.
In this picture we have the crossovers and filters for each speaker. All good except the drivers are not linked together.
In the next one it's a little bit better, a parallel and a series wired speakers, "simple" 2 way crossovers. If you have 2 x 4ohm speakers and an 8ohm Amp.. easy!
What have we here, oh easy: 3 speakers in parallel. And if you have 3 x 8ohms speakers and the same amp as above things turn strangely more intricate.
This is a logical skema of how to put together more then one 2 ways crossover to build a multi-way crossover.
I wont bothered you too much now.. My missing part is how to design a complete schema that will respect the both world.
I have:
- 2 x 4ohm Tweeters
- 1 x 8ohm High Mid driver
- 1 x 8ohm Low Mid driver
- 1 x 4ohm Woofer
- 1 x Amp 2x100W 8ohm
And I would like to build a 4 way loudspeaker. I can figure a wiring schema with few combinations to come out with an 8ohm final impedance, but how/where to insert the crossovers in between without breaking any rule?
For the simplicity of this let's disregard the other 5 billions of jobs that these modules (crossovers) must do and keeping it simple enough can you guys please help me and put together a kind of step by step guide of how to blend together the 2 logical drawings?
I decided to build my own speakers and go for the 4 way crossover after some good hours of reading.
But first I must thank to AlanB because everything started around his post.
It seamed that I had all the answers so I went down the track and start buying things. But now when I'm putting them together I discovered few new problems. "New" for me off course but anyway everything is new for me so .. please help
)I understood how to build the crossovers and what's the role of every component. I understood how to wire the speakers in series or parallel to have a total impedance of X ohms. But those two schema don't work together when I try to design a final board.
In this picture we have the crossovers and filters for each speaker. All good except the drivers are not linked together.
In the next one it's a little bit better, a parallel and a series wired speakers, "simple" 2 way crossovers. If you have 2 x 4ohm speakers and an 8ohm Amp.. easy!
What have we here, oh easy: 3 speakers in parallel. And if you have 3 x 8ohms speakers and the same amp as above things turn strangely more intricate.
This is a logical skema of how to put together more then one 2 ways crossover to build a multi-way crossover.
I wont bothered you too much now.. My missing part is how to design a complete schema that will respect the both world.
I have:
- 2 x 4ohm Tweeters
- 1 x 8ohm High Mid driver
- 1 x 8ohm Low Mid driver
- 1 x 4ohm Woofer
- 1 x Amp 2x100W 8ohm
And I would like to build a 4 way loudspeaker. I can figure a wiring schema with few combinations to come out with an 8ohm final impedance, but how/where to insert the crossovers in between without breaking any rule?
For the simplicity of this let's disregard the other 5 billions of jobs that these modules (crossovers) must do and keeping it simple enough can you guys please help me and put together a kind of step by step guide of how to blend together the 2 logical drawings?
the four drivers each need a passive filter.
The 4ohms woofer gets a 4ohms low pass filter.
The 4ohms tweeter gets a 4ohms high pass filter.
The 8ohms low mid gets an 8ohms band pass filter.
The 8ohms high mid gets an 8ohms band pass filter.
You end up with a 4 to 8ohms speaker impedance.
At low frequencies the amplifier sees a 4ohms load, plus or minus the usual variations that drivers present.
At high frequencies the amplifier sees a 4ohms load.
At all the middle frequencies the amplifier sees an 8ohms load.
The 4ohms woofer gets a 4ohms low pass filter.
The 4ohms tweeter gets a 4ohms high pass filter.
The 8ohms low mid gets an 8ohms band pass filter.
The 8ohms high mid gets an 8ohms band pass filter.
You end up with a 4 to 8ohms speaker impedance.
At low frequencies the amplifier sees a 4ohms load, plus or minus the usual variations that drivers present.
At high frequencies the amplifier sees a 4ohms load.
At all the middle frequencies the amplifier sees an 8ohms load.
Thank You!
"The 4ohms tweeter gets a 4ohms high pass filter".. but I have 2 Tweeters x 4ohm each. In series they'll make 8ohm together but where should I put the high pass filter? One for each tweeter? If we call the two tweeters in series a "unit" then this unit has 8ohm. Should I make a high pass filter for a 8ohm "unit" considering the other characteristics (sensitivity, re, le, etc) the same as per any tweeter?
"The 4ohms tweeter gets a 4ohms high pass filter".. but I have 2 Tweeters x 4ohm each. In series they'll make 8ohm together but where should I put the high pass filter? One for each tweeter? If we call the two tweeters in series a "unit" then this unit has 8ohm. Should I make a high pass filter for a 8ohm "unit" considering the other characteristics (sensitivity, re, le, etc) the same as per any tweeter?
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Why do you start with two tweeters? It's a horrible design to start with.
Usually I see two woofers or two midranges ( one to have big bass, the other to keep up with the big bass ! ) but two tweeters it's hard. Maybe in the past years, just to fill the available space.
The tweeter alone has already its problems. Just take a dome, the periferic part ( near the voice coil ) has a different type of emission than the apex - well, it's the same as a woofer, as the membrane should be ( modeled as being) infinitively stiff. That what is called pistonic behaviour.
So to design a good speaker you should aim to keep the voices clean and when it comes to treble frequencies= short wavelenght
the problems arise to control the single emission, go figure to have two coherent sources (two tweeters) with a space in between.
Usually I see two woofers or two midranges ( one to have big bass, the other to keep up with the big bass ! ) but two tweeters it's hard. Maybe in the past years, just to fill the available space.
The tweeter alone has already its problems. Just take a dome, the periferic part ( near the voice coil ) has a different type of emission than the apex - well, it's the same as a woofer, as the membrane should be ( modeled as being) infinitively stiff. That what is called pistonic behaviour.
So to design a good speaker you should aim to keep the voices clean and when it comes to treble frequencies= short wavelenght
the problems arise to control the single emission, go figure to have two coherent sources (two tweeters) with a space in between.
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I didn't know all that! I have a good powerful bass subwoofer and 2 mid (1 low mid and 1 high mid) strong woofers.. I was imagining I need 2 tweeters to keep up with the rest so it's done now, I have them here.
I started with a 3 way schema like 8ohm Tw, 8ohm Mid, 4ohm Bass. And to make 8ohm tweeter I bought 2 x 4ohm.
But the question remains: how should I treat them, as separate tweeters or as a unit?
Thank you, I will do that. So only 1 tweeter per box!
Meanwhile I computed all I read and understood up to now in the following sheet. The crossovers are the simplest 1st Order Butterworth.
I will correct the tweeter values accordingly.. but is the rest worth something? I will continue to add everything in one single big schema but will I set the house on fire if I continue this way??? 
View attachment 4way loudspeaker.pdf
Meanwhile I computed all I read and understood up to now in the following sheet. The crossovers are the simplest 1st Order Butterworth.
I will correct the tweeter values accordingly.. but is the rest worth something? I will continue to add everything in one single big schema but will I set the house on fire if I continue this way???
View attachment 4way loudspeaker.pdf
If I may use your example to go a little off topic with a 'refinement' opportunity which is optional.
Tweeter = 95.8 Db
Med High = 95 Db
Med Low = 97.2 Db
Woofer = 87 Db
You've chosen to work to a sensitivity of 87dB which makes sense. If two amplifiers were available one could be used to power the woofer and the other could power the rest of the drivers with much of the attenuating resistance adjusted down or removed. The amp levels could then optionally be adjusted using resistance at their inputs.
The potential benefits of this include the ability to choose an amp for the upper range which doesn't need to supply as much power to the speaker, and this can be traded for a few things such as.. being able to choose from a wider range of available amplifiers where a smaller one might happen to sound better in your opinion.. or with the same amp the system could potentially play louder.. and removing the upper range amp from bass duty might help it to play more cleanly.
If a pre-amp and two power amps were used (for example...as this could be done with almost any amp if you know what you're doing), the 100uF capacitor on the med/low driver could be replaced with a capacitor at the front of the upper range amp, which would be smaller and possibly of higher quality, and which could replace the existing input coupling capacitor used in the amp that, like the 100uF is possibly electrolytic.
I don't have a problem with electrolytic capacitors as such. Over time (years) or if used inappropriately they can begin to change their characteristics. Furthermore it would seem easier to produce a smaller valued capacitor that is of higher quality, though no guarantees and the practical improvement can range from small to non-existent.
Tweeter = 95.8 Db
Med High = 95 Db
Med Low = 97.2 Db
Woofer = 87 Db
You've chosen to work to a sensitivity of 87dB which makes sense. If two amplifiers were available one could be used to power the woofer and the other could power the rest of the drivers with much of the attenuating resistance adjusted down or removed. The amp levels could then optionally be adjusted using resistance at their inputs.
The potential benefits of this include the ability to choose an amp for the upper range which doesn't need to supply as much power to the speaker, and this can be traded for a few things such as.. being able to choose from a wider range of available amplifiers where a smaller one might happen to sound better in your opinion.. or with the same amp the system could potentially play louder.. and removing the upper range amp from bass duty might help it to play more cleanly.
If a pre-amp and two power amps were used (for example...as this could be done with almost any amp if you know what you're doing), the 100uF capacitor on the med/low driver could be replaced with a capacitor at the front of the upper range amp, which would be smaller and possibly of higher quality, and which could replace the existing input coupling capacitor used in the amp that, like the 100uF is possibly electrolytic.
I don't have a problem with electrolytic capacitors as such. Over time (years) or if used inappropriately they can begin to change their characteristics. Furthermore it would seem easier to produce a smaller valued capacitor that is of higher quality, though no guarantees and the practical improvement can range from small to non-existent.
Hi Allen, thanks for taking a look into my problem.
I was thinking to power the lower frequencies separate but maybe in the future due to a finite budget. Maybe 2 x plate amp for each speaker will do the job cheap and better than one single do it all Amp. And will result in a stereo subwoofer
But are my calculations / deductions from the above file correct? These crossovers are such a head each if you're in the dark like me..
I was thinking to power the lower frequencies separate but maybe in the future due to a finite budget. Maybe 2 x plate amp for each speaker will do the job cheap and better than one single do it all Amp. And will result in a stereo subwoofer
But are my calculations / deductions from the above file correct? These crossovers are such a head each if you're in the dark like me..
I would be very tempted to use the three high efficiency drivers off a single supply all using the same power.
@ 95dB/2.83Vac @ 1m, it does not need a lot of power. The other two need just a little bit of padding down to reach the same output. Note that the tolerances on sensitivity may exceed the apparent difference in the specified values.
The 87dB/2.83Vac @ 1m needs 8dB more drive power to reach the same output.
This points to using a 6.3times as much power for the bass driver.
I.e. if using 10W for the three upper drivers, then the bass channel would match output wise with 63W.
If I went this route I would adopt an active filter for the two amplifiers (a low pass for the bass amp and a high pass for the upper frequency amp) and avoid the need for massive and expensive inductor coils.
@ 95dB/2.83Vac @ 1m, it does not need a lot of power. The other two need just a little bit of padding down to reach the same output. Note that the tolerances on sensitivity may exceed the apparent difference in the specified values.
The 87dB/2.83Vac @ 1m needs 8dB more drive power to reach the same output.
This points to using a 6.3times as much power for the bass driver.
I.e. if using 10W for the three upper drivers, then the bass channel would match output wise with 63W.
If I went this route I would adopt an active filter for the two amplifiers (a low pass for the bass amp and a high pass for the upper frequency amp) and avoid the need for massive and expensive inductor coils.
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