Jamos in the junkpile

[newindustar]

Current config
BK ST-140 power amp
Onkyo P3200 preamp
various Onkyo Integra components
various high end Hi-Fi vhs for audio taping

Advent Laureate
Realistic Optimus 50
Utah 3-way acoustic suspension
Polk monitor Series 2 M4 bookshelf

I also collected some more vintage gear like Sony STR-7055 and JVC KD-7 cassette but this gear is sidelined for this discussion.

This a tale of an absolute beginner's HI-FI adventure. It does involve many questions in italics as it unfolds. The story begins a few months ago with a person who was never into Hi-Fi the finds who finds a Pioneer 6500 II in a junk shop/thrift. He soon finds a pair of old Japanese 4-ways model "SS Twelve", zero web references. They boxes are about 12 x 24 and contained 12 inch woofers, 6 inch (mid or mid bass or small woofer), tweeter and another somewhere between mid and tweeter4-way. There was no evidence of an original crossover but someone had done an absolute hack job hanging some caps. All speakers looked original except for the obviously new 6 inch.

1. Is there such a thing a speaker design that relies on 4-way speakers without crossover?

The 6 (61/2)? were new as in brand new looking. there was no numbers on them except for a front edge marking EC141A. I hard web search brought me to DIYA Questions about driver and/for BLHs. This is the only web reference I could find to EC141A. I started hoping they were Jamos because of the identical edge marking. I had not registered yet so could not see the pic in the link. I just registered today so I could see the pic and the obvious difference is mine are silver cones and have a slightly concave center.

It seems implausible someone else would have the identical edge marking.

Could someone try to explain what is going on here with EC141A?

Jumping forward to the present I have acquired a very nice pair of Advent Laureates. I always thought they were a bit muffled certainly nor bright, really I was not impressed. I attributed it to East Coast sound after reading about them.

On a a whim I replaced one of the Advents dual matching 6" woofers with one of the mystery EC141A and there was an immediate (big) improvement in I would guess in all ranges. It sounded great. Then I replaced the woofer in the other Advent but something was missing compared to the first one I modified. I realized the tweeter was out. I went back to the old 4-way box and robber its old 20 watt tweeter. Very solid looking 20watt, I guess it is sort of a mini round horn shape. I replaced the bad Advent soft dome tweeter and the speaker sounded great. I did side by side with the this against the Advent with the original tweeter and both sounded great, not identical but both very good.

You can imagine the questions this whole operation has raised design wise.

I put the unidentified EC141A in place of the well reputed Advent woofer and it dramatically improved the speaker, why? Are the old Advent woofers not so great compared to new designs?
Are bi-woofer designs considered any good by today's standards? Could someone tear into this Advent design issue. I would like to know the optimum way to mod the Advents. I could just put in the other old robbed tweeter and be happy but I really want to know what happened here. What had I done design wise by changing out these speakers totally subverting Advents design yet completely improving performance by no understanding of my own?

I swapped the old woofers around and they all sound the same and though the foam is getting fragile it is still intact. They have huge magnets.

Robbery phase 3.

I came hoe yesterday with a pair of Realistic Optimus 50. They are perfect except the foam was rotted off the woofers. So I went back for the third time to the old 4-ways and robbed the 12 Inch woofers. The Realistic woofers had much longer travel, bigger magnets and probably more mobility. However the old woofers I put in sound great sound great. The Optimus 50 have more depth than my new and improved Advents and I probably prefer the Realistics over the Advents. There is a long post in DIYA about this identical question where a guy brings home a pair of Optimus 50 with rotted woofers and asks the forum what to do with them. right off he is told 12 inch woofers are too big for the cabs approximately 14 x 28.

Replies seemed offhand to reject offhand all of Realistic's design such as the rear opening mid tube, the crossovers, the 12 inch woofers etc., basically tear it all out, plug up the holes and do something else. I have not got to the bottom of the post but no one discussed just replacing the woofers or re foaming. I did not quite get this. These speakers sound great are were well respected by many. Why trash the original design so quickly?

I am listening 70 Dylan songs from a 6 hour long show commemorating his 70th birthday I taped off Public Radio FM onto VHS through my Onkyo T4500 tuner. The VHS sounds totally clean, no loss I can detect from the live broadcast. This is with my old oddball woofers in there. Again this raises many design questions.

One is if my unidentified woofers with less mobility, smaller magnets etc might in effect give less bass than the original realistic woofers.

I found it amazing those old 4-ways could so successfully donate just what I needed. Indeed my scrounging keep delivering everything I needed including a whole stack of matching Onkyo components, all found separately and the BK amp

[newindustar]

My link broke and contents dissapeared so her is a repost. Thankfully I had it is a write app.

Current config
BK ST-140 power amp
Onkyo P3200 preamp
various Onkyo Integra components
various high end Hi-Fi vhs for audio taping

Advent Laureate
Realistic Optimus 50
Utah 3-way acoustic suspension
Polk monitor Series 2 M4

I also collected some more vintage gear like Sony STR-7055 and JVC KD-7 cassette but this gear is sidelined for this discussion.

This a tale of an absolute beginner's HI-FI adventure. It does involve many questions in italics as it unfolds. The story begins a few months ago with a person who was never into Hi-Fi the finds who finds a Pioneer 6500 II in a junk shop/thrift. He soon finds a pair of old Japanese 4-ways model "SS Twelve", zero web references. They boxes are about 12 x 24 and contained 12 inch woofers, 6 inch (mid or mid bass or small woofer), tweeter and another somewhere between mid and tweeter4-way. There was no evidence of an original crossover but someone had done an absolute hack job hanging some caps. All speakers looked original except for the obviously new 6 inch.

Is there such a thing a speaker design that relies on 4-way speakers without crossover?

The 6 (61/2)? were new as in brand new looking. there was no numbers on them except for a front edge marking EC141A. I hard web search brought me to DIYA Questions about driver and/for BLHs. This is the only web reference I could find to EC141A. I started hoping they were Jamos because of the identical edge marking. I had not registered yet so could not see the pic in the link. I just registered today so I could see the pic and the obvious difference is mine are silver cones and have a slightly concave center.

It seems implausible someone else would have the identical edge marking.

Could someone try to explain what is going on here with EC141A?

Jumping forward to the present I have acquired a very nice pair of Advent Laureates. I always thought they were a bit muffled certainly nor bright, really I was not impressed. I attributed it to East Coast sound after reading about them.

On a a whim I replaced one of the Advents dual matching 6" woofers with one of the mystery EC141A and there was an immediate (big) improvement in I would guess in all ranges. It sounded great. Then I replaced the woofer in the other Advent but something was missing compared to the first one I modified. I realized the tweeter was out. I went back to the old 4-way box and robber its old 20 watt tweeter. Very solid looking 20watt, I guess it is sort of a mini round horn shape. I replaced the bad Advent soft dome tweeter and the speaker sounded great. I did side by side with the this against the Advent with the original tweeter and both sounded great, not identical but both very good.

You can imagine the questions this whole operation has raised design wise.

I put the unidentified EC141A in place of the well reputed Advent woofer and it dramatically improved the speaker, why? Are the old Advent woofers not so great compared to new designs?
Are bi-woofer designs considered any good by today's standards? Could someone tear into this Advent design issue. I would like to know the optimum way to mod the Advents. I could just put in the other old robbed tweeter and be happy but I really want to know what happened here. What had I done design wise by changing out these speakers totally subverting Advents design yet completely improving performance by no understanding of my own?

I swapped the old woofers around and they all sound the same and though the foam is getting fragile it is still intact. They have huge magnets.

Robbery phase 3.

I came home yesterday with a pair of Realistic Optimus 50. They are perfect except the foam was rotted off the woofers. So I went back for the third time to the old 4-ways and robbed the 12 Inch woofers. The Realistic woofers had much longer travel, bigger magnets and probably more mobility. However the old woofers I put in sound great sound great. The Optimus 50 have more depth than my new and improved Advents and I probably prefer the Realistics over the Advents.

There is a long post in DIYA about this identical question where a guy brings home a pair of Optimus 50 with rotted woofers and asks the forum what to do with them. right off he is told 12 inch woofers are too big for the cabs approximately 14 x 28.

Replies seemed offhand to reject offhand all of Realistic's design such as the rear opening mid tube, the crossovers, the 12 inch woofers etc., basically tear it all out, plug up the holes and do something else. I have not got to the bottom of the post but no one discussed just replacing the woofers or re foaming. I did not quite get this. These speakers sound great are were well respected by many. Why trash the original design so quickly?

I am listening 70 Dylan songs from a 6 hour long show commemorating his 70th birthday I taped off Public Radio FM onto VHS through my Onkyo T4500 tuner. The VHS sounds totally clean, no loss I can detect from the live broadcast. This is with my old oddball woofers in there. Again this raises many design questions.

One is if my unidentified woofers with less mobility, smaller magnets etc might in effect give less bass than the original realistic woofers?

I found it amazing those old 4-ways could so successfully donate just what I needed. Indeed my scrounging keep delivering everything I needed including a whole stack of matching Onkyo components, all found separately and the BK amp.