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-   -   5 way project - tapped, bass, mids and tweeter, big boy system (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/189377-5-way-project-tapped-bass-mids-tweeter-big-boy-system.html)

Speedysteve7 20th May 2011 07:43 PM

5 way project - tapped, bass, mids and tweeter, big boy system
 
It all started out with my making a pair of Tannoy GRF replicas and starting to like that sort of sound.

Then on hearing Coco's (yes, he has a lot to be thanks and cursed for:-) ), AH-300 conical and making a pair... and crossing them using Tannoy HPD's in my cabs.
Looked like this.
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...300andGRFs.jpg

Then complete.
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/2wayhorn.jpg
I used JBL2435Be's - heard good thing about them and they were not that expensive... Crossing at 1000Hz like Tannoy do. Sounded pretty good to be honest!

this 2 way set up then had a cheap Eminence tweeter added and progressed to using Emience Kappa Pro LFII's instead of the Tannoys and my own 2nd order 12dB / oct crossovers.
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...Page1/3way.jpg

After a while fingers started itching and I got a pair of JBL2482's in good sounding condition.
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...Page1/4way.jpg
Big mid horns for them and crossing at 330Hz... The JBL2435's moved up to 1250Hz

Once made they looked like this
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...wayJBLhorn.jpg
So far that's 48 tapered compound angled petals cut out for the mid and upper mid horns.

Suddenly mid range was clear and fantastic. Piano OMG. Asking a paper cone to do that sort of thing just cannot compete with decent compression drivers...

Then of course a mid bass conical.

Read up and found some excellent advice...
Petals on the go...
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...3Apr291307.jpg
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...2Apr291306.jpg
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1Apr291305.jpg

Chamber
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG_1091.jpg
Kappa 15-A chosen after modeling in Hornresp - excellent proj/tool - repect and many thanks for use of it.
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG_1093.jpg
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG_1097.jpg
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG_1099.jpg
First test
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...IMG_1101-2.jpg

Using GRF;s as low bass bins
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG_1103.jpg

mid bass horns cross at 90hz

Rearranged - sounded better
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG_1106.jpg
Now for some tapped horns
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG_1118.jpg
Thanks to Volvotreter and Cowanaudio and the Colborative taped horn sub project thread - excellent stuff.

I chosed to use my Eminence Kappa PRO LFRII's -nice drivers and they modelled well in Hornresp.

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG_1120.jpg

First side done
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG_1122.jpg

Then both
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/IMG_1124.jpg

Now to relax. listen, already tuned the upper / mid horns to work nicely with the md and tapped horns.

Really sounds good. Horns are the way to go. 5 way is the ultimate I think..
'Normal' music sound great with accurate fast bass and then ask it to do some sub stuff and oh yes you hear / feel that.
Makes lower listening levels enjoyable as you get full range without terribly loud. High WAF!

Loved this project and the results. Will do some fine tuning / measuring but my ears tell me it is close...

What next. Not sure about 5 way amping or fully active tbh...

firechief 20th May 2011 07:56 PM

Let me be the first to say WOW! Its a progressive desease this DIY and the cure has yet to be found. My condolances:D

Helmuth 20th May 2011 08:06 PM

I am moving down the cursor and :apathic: :beady: :) :D

Cal Weldon 20th May 2011 08:35 PM

Absolutely stunning Steve!

terry j 21st May 2011 03:21 AM

I just kept laughing more and more as each iteration occurred! Fantastic, thanks for sharing.

Something that big in Uk conditions, amazing! great stuff.

Have you reached the end here now? If so, what are your plans for final finshing etc??

Shaun 21st May 2011 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terry j (Post 2578852)
I just kept laughing more and more as each iteration occurred!

I love it!:D

Speedysteve7 21st May 2011 01:33 PM

Thanks guys. Evolution - very nice to see those room shots on after the other. I have one of just the straight GRF's too. It looks quite empty in here!
I am lucky in that last year we built this room for hifi only - so not frowns or tuts from the Mrs.
She like the conicals - says they are like flowers. Did got some looks when introducing the the 90cm dia by 120cm deep mid bass horns and she even helped me carry round the tapped horns!
The 90cm + material mid bass widths do not fit through a standard house door or even front door. Handy to have the double doors and site entrance from the double garage workshop;-)
I will post up some crossover screen short and horn resp models soon and actual measurements when done.
Still loving the full range.
Not decided what to finish it all like yet...

firechief 21st May 2011 01:59 PM

We would like to hear about the electronics also. Gotta have some amps somewhere.

ByronInPortland 21st May 2011 02:18 PM

High WAF? You must have a very understanding wife.

That's a lot of really nice woodworking. I wish I could listen to them.

Speedysteve7 21st May 2011 07:17 PM

Well, amps not that exciting.
I mostly use a homebuild SoH KT88 PP 15-20W class A that has all silicon power reg
http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/48...600x600Q85.jpg
That's it before it became a power amp as I went TVC only.
Here it is all aglow
http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/43...600x600Q85.jpg

Unfortunately I put it on on Friday evening and one channel was down on vol and a bit muffled so I will have to have a look at it. Not valves as I did a quick check and they are quite new.

It's a bit overkill for the sensitivity I now have...

At the moment and for digital / streaming listening I am using a supposed 20W T-amp (more like 6W). But it is quite powerful enough to generate some great bass on the mid bass and tapped horn - it struggled with the GRF config when turned up. Not so with the proper horns.

So I use passive crossovers. Partly cost I don't think something like a Behringer jobbie will cut it ADC wise for my phono signal and not even as a dac. It would have to be a very much more superior one I think.
Also 4 or 5 amps - not really me somehow. I am thinking of a nice SE sometime. Hope to audition one tomorrow so will know more about them.

So I use simple 2nd order 12dB / oct passive.
Some nice meaty windings for the lower freq stuff.

Here's the crossover from upper mid JBL2435BE to JBL2484 to Kappa 15A
http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/93...600x600Q85.jpg

I use a Zobel on the Kappa 15A to stop it rising. - Similar on the Kappa Pro LFII's too.
http://inlinethumb03.webshots.com/45...600x600Q85.jpg

Then the Cross between Kappa 15A Mid bass horn and Kappa Pro LFII tapped horn looks like this.
http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/47...600x600Q85.jpg

The tweeter is just added on with it's one little crossover.

When trying the first experiments with a Tannoy HPD bass cone and JBL2435 horn I found how much better the simple 2nd order 12dB crossover sounded and decided to stick with it throughout this project. Adding the JBL 2482's going 4 way worked well and I just kept on with the tapped horns and 5 way.

The driver specs are
Tweeter - cheap little Eminence thing - might replace for nicer work situation pending...
http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/48...600x600Q85.jpg

JBL2435be's upper mid (1250Hz to 10000Hz) - you don't find much about them spec wise as they were always in arrays... Crisp, quite cutting dynamic upper mid.

JBL2482's mid / lower mid horn (330Hz to 1250Hz). Rich toneful mid Compression driver.
http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/48...600x600Q85.jpg

Kappa 15A - Cheap and nice sounding bass guitar pro driver (90Hz to 330Hz)
http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/45...600x600Q85.jpg

Eminence Kappa Pro LFII (Pro audio low freq driver) Robust and can do deep effortlessly.
http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/48...600x600Q85.jpg

Now to the Horn resp side.
Mr Coco kindly modelled the mid bass horn for me
Here's how it looks with a Kappa 15A on it
http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/32...600x600Q85.jpg

Horn resp schematic
http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/46...600x600Q85.jpg

Params to get that
http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/45...600x600Q85.jpg

Now for the tapped horns. I played with Hornresp and came up with what would fit in my room and was a compromise crossing with the midbass at around 90Hz.

http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/46...600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/48...600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/47...600x600Q85.jpg

I am not so much for fiddling with models endlessly and talking about it - like to get on and make sawdust and build. Still The models point to something usable.

I have the tapped horns fully in the corners so use 0.5 x Pi.

I am using L-Pads on the JLB2435's and 2482's - 13dB on both. Nothing on the tweeters or mid bass / tapped sub horn. Balance is to my ear about right.

Measuring to be done as and when.

Listening to test tone across freq ranges all seems ok , no dips and nice room resonance down in the 30Hz area:-)

Today I have made sure all the inspection / driver installation hatches are air tight. Bead of silicone sealant on one side and Vaseline smear on the other face and bingo - perfect seal / removable and re-usable for virtually nowt.

Listening to Pink Floyd - Wish you were here just now - sounds nice...
Now onto Beautiful South - nice clear dynamic sound and goes loud very well!

Must get some Yello sub bass on or Joan as police woman later ;-)


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