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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 21st January 2012, 03:44 PM   #81
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Yeah it did as you say - I got better at it with practise (over and over...) but you do get tired and start to flag after a long stint...

I forgot to say above that
All measured with mic at ear listening chair position and they were in waveform terms quite a bit out!
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Old 21st January 2012, 09:15 PM   #82
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Speedysteve, you've done well to get this far, doing it your own way. I know I'm not the only one who's impressed.

So I'll just say this and be on my way. Looking at the top graph, the region below 150Hz is special and is caused by room modes. You should make one more attempt to correct this region acoustically, and then reapply your DSP. I think you'll prefer it this way. You'll want to get one woofer (sub) and cross it around below 150Hz. Place it in your room so that it flatens the 150Hz and below region. Position is most important, level and phase will need to be adjuusted for best fit. Time alignment is not the same kind of issue down here as the sound is already caught up in bouncing around the room, hence the peaks and dips, so it might be OK to put this sub anywhere that works, even assimetrically with the system.

And finally, your peak at 400Hz is important and may be better treated acoustically first, as well. It is 'probably' a reflection from either the front wall, same side wall, floor or ceiling.
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Old 24th January 2012, 05:45 PM   #83
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Yeah we'll see about the acoustic damping - never say never.
Will measure again now perfectly time aligned...

Other news

aha that's better - I can relax now. Stands modified and in place.

Even the mid bass horn is confirmed as time aligned

Click the image to open in full size.

R.H. too.

Click the image to open in full size.

Love it when a plan comes together...

Here's the stand mod

Click the image to open in full size.

wider (to accommodate the entire wide of the mid bass back chamber so it just passes right underneath.

Click the image to open in full size.

How it looks side on time aligned according to HOLMUpulse and my ears are confirming...

Click the image to open in full size.

The keen eyed among you will notice the driver clamps so no movement and the rear locks that are marked up for re-alignment after dismantle / reassemble . The Lazy ribbons now clamp to the back bone of the stand and have a moveable foot clamped on for height ref that I can change should I want to raise the drivers to give more distance and air to them (Scalford?)

Next up make alignment lock offs for the mid bass before anyone touches them!

I do have a wife and kids
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Old 16th February 2012, 08:32 PM   #84
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I have been taking a look at the tapped horns - more reading up and have decided to take mine to 4th order / 24dB per octave.
Mr Danley sure knows a thing or two about it all. He recommends 24dB/oct for his DTS20 tower of power's. Made of same birch ply qual / thickness as i used.
I noticed though that his measurement plot only goes up to 100Hz and seems pretty smoothed out - wonder what they look like above that?!

Anyway, I have only done the LH channel so far (good for L / R comparison measurements). Other reason is that all the components have not arrived yet.

Here my RH channel with 2nd order, 12dB/oct X/O

Click the image to open in full size.

Here is my LH tapped with 4th order, 24dB/oct.

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I still have a drop of some 7 dB from peak at just over 30Hz down to where lets face it, mid 41's, where most of the action is taking place in normal music. The normal music region is pretty flat. I might try running Anti-Mode on it again and see.

The mid bass horn overlap looks like this (all 4 horns and a ribbon).

Click the image to open in full size.

All measurements taken at the ear position on the sofa

I can boost up / reduce areas to some extent with the 5 amps control of each horn pair of course.
I am close to the magic + / - 5 dB across the whole range. I must search out for other peoples measurements and see what can be achieved.

It's hard to tell how much this has cleaned up the action in listening with the RH channel still playing as it is on 2nd order. I can perceive some but it's masked of course by the peak from the RH still.

Anyway with it like this (plenty of dB's at 20Hz) Bach on big Church organs still sounds great, as the low notes are hit I get a little boost where most speakers are rolled off into nothing.

Hopefully tomorrow the big caps will arrive so I can do the RH side over the weekend.

Adjustable feet going on the stands tomorrow anyhow. Decided to machine down threaded bar coupling nuts to make inserts that will fit into the stands bases with a few spot welds to retain / give strength. Be doing that tomorrow evening.
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Old 17th February 2012, 07:42 AM   #85
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One question would be why my tapped horn slopes are not steeper than the above?
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Old 17th February 2012, 05:24 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedysteve7 View Post
One question would be why my tapped horn slopes are not steeper than the above?
What "slopes " are you referencing?
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Old 17th February 2012, 06:22 PM   #87
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haha it was my measuring too quietly as it was late, with the mic turned up too much.

Getting some some steeper slopes now but still not tailing off as I would expect it sort of levels off more than I would expect - Prob the way I am measuring / set up - more fun to be head.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Got the other side to build now.
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Old 17th February 2012, 08:32 PM   #88
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A good suggestion from Mr Coco is LImp. Quite possible I need more mH' here and there- will check that out more.

Both sides done to 24dB/oct and sounding good. Lower mid bass is faster and cleaner for sure. The mid bass horns are able to play through at their low end without distraction from the tapped horns - that's how it sounds anyway. Def worth doing.
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Old 18th February 2012, 02:23 AM   #89
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Excellent write up... you have taken this setup from a caterpillar to a magnificent butterfly... very well done!
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Old 18th February 2012, 05:08 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedysteve7 View Post
haha it was my measuring too quietly as it was late, with the mic turned up too much.

Getting some some steeper slopes now but still not tailing off as I would expect it sort of levels off more than I would expect - Prob the way I am measuring / set up - more fun to be head.
Looks like the measurement system is showing the noise floor, what does the measurement look like when the input is turned off?
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