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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 3rd June 2011, 01:28 PM   #41
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sannax View Post
Wouldn't passive on top and minidsp in the bottom lead to some delay issues?Reason why i ask is I am planning something similiar myself

Btw: Very nice system speedysteve7!!
You would be feeding the passive top and the bass portion through the DSP so there should be no difference in delay.
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Old 4th June 2011, 06:55 PM   #42
sannax is offline sannax  Norway
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Originally Posted by doug20 View Post
You would be feeding the passive top and the bass portion through the DSP so there should be no difference in delay.
I am not that into minidsp yet, so how will this work? I can't see how you can dsp a passive XO in the program? I am probably missing something due to my superficial knowledge of minidsp. Care to explain? Sorry OT Speedysteve7, but this could maybe be of interest for your systemas well?
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Old 4th June 2011, 07:33 PM   #43
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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There is a MiniDSP forum on DIYaudio that will better help you figure out the MiniDSP.
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Old 4th June 2011, 08:02 PM   #44
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Not at all - all disc around what might be an option for me is welcome...
miniDSP forum - have to look at that one too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sannax View Post
I am not that into minidsp yet, so how will this work? I can't see how you can dsp a passive XO in the program? I am probably missing something due to my superficial knowledge of minidsp. Care to explain? Sorry OT Speedysteve7, but this could maybe be of interest for your systemas well?
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Old 4th June 2011, 08:07 PM   #45
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Played around with the L-pads some more. Very rewarding to try something and then realise it was not right and get back on track. I am pretty much there now and am happy with the sound both through the tube amp and T-amp for more casual listening.

Currently I have nothing on Tapped and Midbass, 9dB on the mid horn (JBL 2842), 12dB on the upper mid (JBL 2435) and 2 dB on the tweeter.

I will have some pals round again soon and one will bring a DEQX (Beringer I think) that will be interesting to see how some room EQ figures.
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Old 5th June 2011, 12:36 PM   #46
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Been playing some more.
This time tweeter positioning.

Click the image to open in full size.

Now at ear height and with much more room to breath. I was aware that they were rather in the shadow of the upper mid and mid horn before.
This is a temp fixing - I might try them at the same height as the upper mid centre - would look better perhaps, but sound wise?...
Ideally they would be in-line with the other drivers I know, but I have no room for that at present - perhaps I will try it if I cut the upper mid horn down by about 1/3, but I still think room will be tight.
Handy the stands are just proto's as I can drill and fix at will and try what's best

You will also see (perhaps not so well in the photo) that all the drivers are perpendicular to the floor but still time aligned. Mr Coco was right to ask/question the way I had them angled before when he was over listening, as I have now listened extensively to both ways this way is preferable.

Last edited by Speedysteve7; 5th June 2011 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 9th June 2011, 10:03 AM   #47
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That looks awesome, I wish I had the room for such a system!

Just to throw something else into the crossover discussion, a couple of DCX2496's could work pretty well I think, you could use one for the left channels and the other for the right, and they do sound pretty nice once you bypass the op-amps which is pretty easy to do.

If you go with a fully active crossover, tweaking is so easy to do...
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Old 9th June 2011, 10:15 AM   #48
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Thanks, it has been a fun project and I am enjoying the results a lot.
Active will be investigated - Have a 2496 visiting me so will try some room correction and perhaps just x/o on tapped to start with and see how / if that works.
Yes, there are tweeks for the DCX2496. A guy on Audiosmilie (Tenson) does them I think.
miniDSP reading / info gathering goes on and if bonus / job keeps going then perhaps a nice DEQX Express - would need to hear that one first though I think before committing.

More to come out of this system over time...

/Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeHunt79 View Post
That looks awesome, I wish I had the room for such a system!

Just to throw something else into the crossover discussion, a couple of DCX2496's could work pretty well I think, you could use one for the left channels and the other for the right, and they do sound pretty nice once you bypass the op-amps which is pretty easy to do.

If you go with a fully active crossover, tweaking is so easy to do...
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Old 9th June 2011, 10:20 AM   #49
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not sure I posted this on here - can't find it anyway.
Here is what Mr Coco wrote about it when he and 2 other wammers were over to listen.
This was pre-zobel correcting, pre proper x/o layout and pre current alignment / positioning oh and the power amp was a little D-class T amp not the usual tube I prefer...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
"I was really looking forward to hearing these as this similar to what I plan to do with my own system.

I certainly wasn't disappointed. They sound absolutely effortless - you get a sense of incredible power, but completely under control. The tapped horn bass is like nothing you've ever heard before. It just pressurises the room and makes it feel like it's not even trying. Like distant thunder!

I felt there was a little colouration in the mid-upper bass where I suspected some unwanted overlap between drivers (Steve has started by using theoretical crossovers, based on nominal impedances). This was indeed borne out by some measuring (though it's pretty close, TBH), showing that some values need tweaking. Not a criticism as you need to start somewhere and just shows that you need to tweak to get the best. Additionally, we inverted phases between pair of drivers (2nd order crossovers introduce a 180 degree phase shift, so require that he drivers are inverted in phase relative to each other). This brought quite significant benefit, I felt.

All in all, I think with a little adjustment, this will be world class - certainly it's already amongst the best I've heard."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old 19th June 2011, 03:39 PM   #50
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Today's DIY has been moving the tweeters. I found that they can sit on top of the mid horn right at the very top and sound quite nice. So now they look like little animals peeping out at the top - actually works very well as the ceiling skieling / slight vaulting slopes up away from the tweeter.

I perceive I am getting better imaging on vocals / upper vocals now as the drivers are all in line - the voice is nicely hanging in the middle when it should is you get me.

Click the image to open in full size.

The other thing I did today was plumb in our external FM aerial cable to the music room. I have had a Denon Tuner since 1993 (was up in the loft for the last 13 years) but it is now belting out FM Radio of my choice with very good sig to noise ratio.
The tapped horns do very well 'coupling with the room' (as Mr Coco puts it), on pieces which feature a large scale organ or big drums etc - Jerusalem for example.
FM sounds better than Spotify streamed / compressed formats. But the Denon is perhaps only in the region of cheap and cheerful CDP really.

Next up some DEQX on the tapped and perhaps the midbass horns!
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