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Old 23rd January 2013, 10:08 PM   #131
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Interesting reports. Did you retune the back chamber each time to meet the resonance of the horn? I've found this to be vital to enjoy delicious bass...
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Old 24th January 2013, 06:22 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedysteve7 View Post
After some plotting and working out, I needed 32 rings of 24mm birch ply. This gave 76.8cm - near enough to the 75 horn resp is telling me.

Click the image to open in full size.
Hi Speedysteve7,

It would seem from the above photo that you may have manually scaled your horn dimensions directly from a hardcopy printout of the Hornresp schematic diagram. Are you aware that Hornresp can automatically calculate this information for you? Simply select the File> Export > Horn Data menu command from the Schematic Diagram window.

To illustrate, I have attached an exported text file for your 75 cm horn design showing the required radius at 24 mm increments. (Unnecessary information has been deleted from the file).

Kind regards,

David
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File Type: txt Horn.txt (1,012 Bytes, 37 views)
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Old 24th January 2013, 07:25 AM   #133
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Thanks David,
Nope I was not really aware of that. I may have played with the exports / outputs at some time and though - nice, and forgotten all about it. That is very interesting,

I will certainly look into it and use on the 2nd horn proto but cannot cut to angle precision. If I like the sound, probably take the route of getting perhaps time to get a decent band saw or my plywood firm to CNC the rings for me to close to perfection for a bit of hand finishing only...

That would be a big help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David McBean View Post
Hi Speedysteve7,

It would seem from the above photo that you may have manually scaled your horn dimensions directly from a hardcopy printout of the Hornresp schematic diagram. Are you aware that Hornresp can automatically calculate this information for you? Simply select the File> Export > Horn Data menu command from the Schematic Diagram window.

To illustrate, I have attached an exported text file for your 75 cm horn design showing the required radius at 24 mm increments. (Unnecessary information has been deleted from the file).

Kind regards,

David

Last edited by Speedysteve7; 24th January 2013 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 24th January 2013, 09:42 PM   #134
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Payday - I bought a bandsaw and a proper jigsaw to be able to get fine control over the angles. Will be able to do nice tilted cuts according to the data export from Hornresp for my larger throated design.
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Old 25th January 2013, 07:16 AM   #135
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Missed this one...

Yes. I too have found that important but not as big a change to sound properties as throat size on this occasion.

I forgot in my write up that I did that test this on Sunday...
I loaded it with 1lt volume increments until it sounded about best. That involved trying 1 - 5 lts reduced vol and listening to each change. 5 lts is the max reduction I can easily get in there.
TBH this does not to my ears affect the sound as much as the throat size on this horn/driver combo.

I must do it again with the new larger throat and see the effects are though. At present I am running with the same vol as I do for the Conicals - may or may not be perfectly optimal. It's roughly what seemed best from Hornresp for the conical actually. For this hyper horn Hornresp is stating 3 lts less as optimum vol but that change is hard to hear TBH.

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Originally Posted by maravedis View Post
Interesting reports. Did you retune the back chamber each time to meet the resonance of the horn? I've found this to be vital to enjoy delicious bass...
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Old 25th January 2013, 08:05 AM   #136
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Steve,
I have found that this is a bit more complicated! The fight between the driver/back chamber VS the horn-resonance/horn-flare is a very strange (and near chaotic?) thing. Clever people can explain this I'm sure.

I have had practical experience trying different drivers on my 115hz exponentials.
The impedance spikes can be quite sharp and its only when you get them together, and they start cancelling themselves does the horn start to make music. Suddenly you get a power and a effortlessness that seems to defy nature. Also, when annulled properly you can use the horn much lower and cross-over not far above the horn flair frequency. Which is good, considering the size/space cost of mid-bass horns.

I think this tuning is next to impossible to do by ear (and I do almost EVerything by ear!) - when you get near the correct volume small changes make a big difference, and without looking at the impedance peaks you just don't know whether to add or reduce volume. Its quite tedious. In my experience the simulations can't get you anywhere near I'm afraid...

Interestingly, the drivers that I like the sound of were the most tricky to annul. I expect there is a reason for that correlation somewhere.
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Old 25th January 2013, 12:42 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedysteve7 View Post
Payday - I bought a bandsaw and a proper jigsaw to be able to get fine control over the angles. Will be able to do nice tilted cuts according to the data export from Hornresp for my larger throated design.
Cool!!! It is so much easier to prototype when you have good tools. Come to think of it, I think I need a new Lathe

With the new horn, it looks like you could bring down your other drivers a couple feet overall. You might get a more coherent sound stage.
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Old 26th January 2013, 02:59 PM   #138
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Yes and yes. The height reduction thing was the main objective of the Exp horn.
The secondary objective was perhaps improved sound.

No point in trying it until I have two mid bass horns the same size hence the pics as is.
Photos and perspectives can be deceptive. The Hyper horns are 18cm smaller in diameter. So can only bring down by that much. Still a fair bit really.

A new lathe - Nice. Mine is a USA Southbend imported into England as part of the help the USA helping the early war effort in the early 1940's.
Still does a good enough job today. Something of an antique - there are of course even older Southbend's though... I guess it will see my out and beyond!

**********************************************
I realise I did not say anything about Hornresp when David posted with his helpful advice. I'd like to say swat a marvelous tool and aid to this lark Hornresp really is.
Thank you so much David for it and the advice.
**********************************************

I've been out playing with the new toys - Cut the 18 largest rings all angled as per the output sheet from Hornresp
This one is going to be much quicker to lick into the Hyper shape.
Hope to have it shaped and perhaps even the back box built - or save that for one evening next week.

I am listening to Ray Lamontagne - Trouble album as I type. The stereo separation of the some of the track on the rich upper bass makes it easy to hear the new sound this hyper horn is making. I LIKE IT. Not just a bit different but a whole other experience of detail and kick.

I'll take some photos after the next workshop session - cutting out the next 17 rings (they get smaller and smaller and quicker and quicker), and have them gluing over night...


Quote:
Originally Posted by djn View Post
Cool!!! It is so much easier to prototype when you have good tools. Come to think of it, I think I need a new Lathe

With the new horn, it looks like you could bring down your other drivers a couple feet overall. You might get a more coherent sound stage.

Last edited by Speedysteve7; 26th January 2013 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 27th January 2013, 05:53 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Speedysteve7 View Post
I realise I did not say anything about Hornresp when David posted with his helpful advice. I'd like to say swat a marvelous tool and aid to this lark Hornresp really is. Thank you so much David for it and the advice.
Hi Speedysteve7,

You're most welcome. Thanks for the kind words, and for your private email message.

Kind regards,

David
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Old 27th January 2013, 07:05 PM   #140
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NP David.

Well, 2nd one knocked up:

Much less edge smoothing needed with the angle cuts.

Click the image to open in full size.

Not finished fully but quite smooth in there for the 100 - 350Hz waveys.
Quite an effort to get done in a weekend.

Listening now - Drottningholm Baroque ensemble among others. Great church organ use on bass and DEEP bass (Tapped H handles that pf course).
Bass vocals are nice too.
Quite different to the big conicals. More detail is audible. I can turn these up more and get a nice character to tenor and bass vocals.
I'd say they integrate better with the mid horns - others have said the same thing about round Hyper or Exponential profile bass horns. How much diff round vs square actually makes I do not know - prob not much, but I like the round look.

I have back box tuning to do by measuring (more guidance needed by maravedis on that one) - should take care of an evening or two
Then I can drop the other drivers and re-time align and see how that sounds - never ends, just as it should be
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