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Old 25th February 2012, 04:30 PM   #91
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A little update -

Today I had the tapped horns outside for a spot of finishing (used a large porters trolley to move them, worked well strapping them to it and using the cab as a handle).

Here's a pic of them - tiddly really. Actually they look bigger outside than they do tucked in the room corners.

Click the image to open in full size.

Scalford here we come (next weekend)...

Yes weltersys I guess so, what do you mean with the input turned off?
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Old 5th March 2012, 04:40 PM   #92
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Well, you may have heard of the Scalford Hifi show. Nr Melton Mowbray (the home of the pork pie - no less).

I took the horn system along for it. All 425kg of them - that's just the 5 ways, amps etc on top of that. Filled a long wheelbase Transit no problem.

Here's how they looked in room

Panoramic from phone.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

The room was pretty echo'y and 70 sqm with a 2.7m high ceiling - never time to full sort out or try different positions much either.

I eq'd the bass and put the tapped horns where they sounded best in the time we had.

The tapped horns pressured that room no problem at all. The compression drivers were ticking over really and the mid bass and tweeters were fine too.

Sounded much better with some 30 persons sitting down in front and standing at the back actually as you would guess.

I got many a hand pump and questions and some very nice feedback too. Folk loved the size and sound.

Bach's Toccata (Lionel Rogg) sounded epic!

One thing though - due to the room door size, being a stupid 700mm wide, I had to cut the mid bass horns down a bit to get them in. Nothing a bit of PVA and filler would not fix.

Here's the deed in progress (only took a top section out, so strength and integrity was not compromised. Was still incredibly stong!

Click the image to open in full size.
(taken by Setting Son)

and here again today fix in progress (taped and clamped and gluing). But they are playing very nicely in my room again. Will be filled and smooth as a babies bum when I am finished

Click the image to open in full size.

Great show of real peoples hifi - ro rooms of totally non-commercial real peoples gear acquired / built with love and care and really good spirit and socialising with curry session for a whole coach load on the Sat evening before the show.

My system sounds miles better in my own room - no contest. so intimate, involving and great presence. Does it for me.

Last edited by Speedysteve7; 5th March 2012 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 5th March 2012, 10:49 PM   #93
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Default Scalford

and to my ears they were the best there - forward without being pushy, well balanced and a delight to listen to. I happily sat with my eyes closed listening... as did many others. Congratulations.
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Old 6th March 2012, 02:32 PM   #94
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Why thank you SP25.
I was quite unsure about the SQ to start with on Sat during testing, but that is what setup / testing is for - On Sunday as more and more people came in the room and the longer I listened the better it got...

I played it for about 7 hrs in my room yesterday (had the day off to recover / restore in room) and love it.
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Old 6th March 2012, 02:44 PM   #95
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Dedication. 425 kg's of it.

Too bad about having to cut the mid bass horns but it looks like all is well again.
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Old 6th March 2012, 10:18 PM   #96
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Yeah, It was either flounce off in a huff having loaded and driven for 3hrs or get creative & adapt. Trusting no one, I did take a saw with me.

They will make a full recovery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon View Post
Dedication. 425 kg's of it.

Too bad about having to cut the mid bass horns but it looks like all is well again.
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Old 7th March 2012, 02:56 AM   #97
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Old 11th April 2012, 09:58 PM   #98
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A little update:
I have been trying the Upper mid horn in the lower position (swapping the tweeter to above it).
This means the upper mid is at ear level rather than the tweeter.

Click the image to open in full size.

It did of course mean re-time aligning and a new more flexible mounting system for the upper mid that I like more.

Click the image to open in full size.

So far extended listening tests are proving positive.
It is not night and day and tonally, but the centrality of the vocal image is better anchored and the horns seem to work even more seamlessly.

I don't think I've tried it this way around properly with the Raals - I did try it with the JBL2405 tweeters but they did not integrate anything like as well as the Raal Lazy ribbons do, so perhaps that was something to do with my not liking it so much.

I also moved stuff around the room a bit and put a storage cab infront of the left tapped horn. That and moving the right tapped horn a couple of inches forward, to accommodate the crossover box more sensibly , I found the deep bass a bit boomy compared to the nice deep tight bass I am used to.
So out came the Anti-mode 8033c mic and a quick re-cal for both sides, had it sorted in no time. Normal service resumed.

I am also experimenting with acoustic absorption on the backs of the horns that could see reflections from the horns behind them. Not pictured in the top pic apart from that which is under the mid horn. Slightly cleaner sound resulting.

Fun and games...

Last edited by Speedysteve7; 11th April 2012 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 29th August 2012, 09:00 PM   #99
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update time - a few changes...

Just took delivery of another add-on to try.

Click the image to open in full size.

Can you guess what they are for?

Wife thought some kind of weird urinal. Daughter said some kind of guide for the butt...

Some wood chopping to make mounts that will fit them. More birch ply and table sawing.

Today I made some new lash up holders for the tweeters and provision to secure the wave guides.
As noted they are extremely nicely made, very solid and nicely weighted.

So far I have just plonked them down and with rough (by measurement where they were on the previous holders) alignment.
This is not ideal as at 10000Hz a mm here or there is quite a lot in terms of alignment error.

So here is how they look in place

Click the image to open in full size.

So far, with a just a quick listen I quite like what I hear.

Def. needed to time align and measure before and after to see what if going on.

What I am hearing is more presence in the very upper registers - no ****, you'll say, that's what I expected!
I **** you not!

Of course it could all be my eyes fooling my ears with these big white things on, or just knowing they are there, hehe...

Here are the first Raal Lazy ribbon measurement comparisons of the waveguide. Taken at 1m on axis.

1. With waveguide in red / without waveguide in green. Shown at 1/6 octave.

Click the image to open in full size.

2. Zoomed in on the 10K-22KHz range and shown in 1/40 octave to really try to bring out the detail of what's going on!

Click the image to open in full size.

So on the much higher 1/N, we can see 2 significant areas of flattening with the waveguide. The 11-12.5K region (where I can still hear), and the 15.5K - 17KHz region (where I can hear significantly less).

Some relative suck out at 14KHz with the guide.

The whole freq range is amazingly flat really, even at 1/40 no deviation of more than +/-5dB really! Apart from the 14KHz region, with the waveguide on makes them even less deviant.
One reason they are so smooth and nice to listen too? - they measure well. Perhaps I should measure the JBL2405's and Rough Eminence tweeters as well - ah another day.

The waveguide gives a boost of some 5 to 10dB - Not insignificant! I do have to back the volume off quite a bit with the guide on...
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Old 29th August 2012, 09:01 PM   #100
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So, I took delivery of a pair of 600Hz horns made by Cube Audio. Thanks to Greg (G-Point) for the fast delivery.

Very well packed and nicely made. The thick walls means no risk of resonance at these frequencies...

They are dinky little things, just 110mm long and 200mm mouth diameter when made to take my 1.5" JBL 2435Be drivers... Designed to work from min 900Hz.
The 2435's bolted straight on and are a very easy to mount / deal with package, compared to my larger DIY birch plywood 12 sided conicals.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

I've not had too much time for hifi lately - the pressures of a new job.
So this first review is confined to the a measure and first listening impressions.

First I compared the Tractrix-600 with my conicals in like for like swapped measurement position. This is with the mic where my ear normally is - that is real world for me.

First up is the comparison of the Tractrix-600 (green line) and my conicals with the rounded mouth (red line).

Click the image to open in full size.

def more filling in of the sub 850Hz to 1.1 KHz region and the over 7KHz too. In general a little flatter here and there too.
These were done 1/6 octave.

Going to 1/15 oct shows the same thing. Both show a good adherence to the +/- 5dB rule across the freq I am using.

Click the image to open in full size.

This evening I got the time to plonk the pair down in the system and time align them in using hornresp to measure to the nearest ms
Listening now.

Can I hear any difference then? Well they certainly sound bigger than they look. Sort of weird seeing such small horns in my system after so long looking at the larger conicals...
First impressions - not a lot wrong with that sound. Def no regression in quality/realism or dynamics and speed.
They just sound sort of right too. I need more listening time before further utterances - which will come.

I can see a further benefit - the reduced size means I can pull the rig height down some. More compact focal point for the sound. Could equal better? Perhaps. Need to try it. That will be another time though as I have to work tomorrow too!

I am now tempted to try the Auto Tech Tractrix 200's with my JBL2482's as well.
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