What is the science behind this?

joe58 · 17th May 2011, 11:53 AM

HI

Basically browsing the Geneva labs ipod dock site(as I am thinking of building a dock) and was wondering what you guys think of the science behind putting the drivers right next to each other. As in below. How does this sound compared to other 'highly rated' docks like the B&W Zeppelin which places the drivers wide as possible apart. The Geneva's also has a little piece that protrudes slightly in between the two drivers.

I am asking this as I always read that drivers should be placed about 1.5m apart to create the stero image, but Geneva do this to remove the sweetspot. Will these have any electronic processes to sort the sound out, and could I recreate the whole zero sweet spot by placing any drivers of my choice this close together?

Thanks

Joe

sreten · 17th May 2011, 12:01 PM

Hi,

Remove the sweetspot ? Its more like expanding a lot by having
no discernible left and right separation. You might as well go the
whole hog and go mono, full range driver mid/treble + bass unit.

rgds, sreten.

joe58 · 17th May 2011, 12:09 PM

Yeah watch the video on this page and they describe what they mean.

I have been thinking why not have a mono setup, and you could still go further with their philosophy and get one very good co-axial driver if you wanted to get the sound(image) totally in one place, excuse my basic science. How would a mono setup sound exactly anyway?

Ian J · 17th May 2011, 12:19 PM

The Geneva dock uses the Embracing Sound process (google to find the company producing the proprietry hardware) which gives stereo from closely positioned speakers. I think the TNT Audio website reviewed this Geneva Labs product a while ago - might be worth trying to find that for an opinion. There is at least another serious speaker which uses it - the Owl monitor from German company EMES.
Ian

joe58 · 17th May 2011, 12:28 PM

Hi

Thanks for that I thought there might be some software trickery somewhere involved and the Owl also has that little raised bit between the drivers, obviously an important piece then. I'll have a read of them a bit later when I've got a bit more time on my hands.

So in response what would say a good mono set up actually sound like? Obviously you wood lose the awareness of where the instruments are coming from, but if you never on-axis and always moving around would you notice anyway?

Insertname · 17th May 2011, 01:28 PM

a good mono set up can sound a bit "dense" at times on modern recordings with lots of stereo. That being said most people don't notice untill they are in front of it and listen to a piece they know quite well.

interesting fact if you listen to something you know quite well, like a common tune or popular song your brain can throw in some of the stereo effect.

the majority of live concerts you will see will be 90% mono! it makes it easier to get the levels right for all the listeners rather than have a sweet spot.

and yet nobody notices! they hear stereo!

Charles Darwin · 17th May 2011, 01:34 PM

You can find a description and a little diagram of how the Owl works in this review:
Mix guides monitors emes owl Field Test-Mix reviews the emes owl speaker system in mix guides monitors

Doesn't seem to involve software (ie anything digital).

gedlee · 17th May 2011, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe58

HI

was wondering what you guys think of the science behind putting the drivers right next to each other.

Thanks

Joe

This is audio - what's science got to do with it? Its easier to make, smaller, all marketing advantages, not acoustical ones.

joe58 · 17th May 2011, 02:31 PM

Gedlee: I get where you are coming from with marketing advantages and 'normal' people not knowing the differences their hearing maybe, I was just referring to the practice of two drivers together and the stereo image they wouldn't be able to create, but thats before I realized there was electronic trickery going on.

Charles: reading through it, the article does refer to it using that Embracing Sound tech.

Insertname: That is something to think about. When you say 'dense' and at the risk of me sounding dense are you referring to the sound not being as open and slightly too bass heavy? If this what you mean, then maybe a smaller fullrange driver( as they lack the lower frequencies anyway) and a smaller subwoofer(say a 'fake' Tang band 6.5" with its volume slightly reduced) could get round this. (If this is a load of tosh, just say as I'm just trying to learn)

Cal Weldon · 17th May 2011, 03:28 PM

I am interested to hear what Earl and others think of splaying the drivers when close together?

17th May 2011, 12:01 PM	#2
sreten diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brighton UK	Hi, Remove the sweetspot ? Its more like expanding a lot by having no discernible left and right separation. You might as well go the whole hog and go mono, full range driver mid/treble + bass unit. rgds, sreten. __________________ There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow

17th May 2011, 12:19 PM	#4
Ian J diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Oxford, England	It uses 'Embracing Sound' TM The Geneva dock uses the Embracing Sound process (google to find the company producing the proprietry hardware) which gives stereo from closely positioned speakers. I think the TNT Audio website reviewed this Geneva Labs product a while ago - might be worth trying to find that for an opinion. There is at least another serious speaker which uses it - the Owl monitor from German company EMES. Ian __________________ 'We demand guaranteed, rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!' - Douglas Adams

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
OB any science to it?	c3conv	Multi-Way	14	24th May 2011 05:46 PM
What is the science behind the gap?	Paul W	Planars & Exotics	2	19th August 2006 04:41 AM
The Sound of Science	tlf9999	Solid State	141	27th August 2005 02:07 PM
Rocket Science	PeteMcK	Multi-Way	3	4th July 2005 09:41 PM
Blind tests, science, etc.	Prune	The Lounge	6	1st February 2004 05:20 AM

New To Site?	Need Help?
Register to Participate Search Privacy Statement Contact Us	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Mark Forums Read


	Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you. Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving

17th May 2011, 12:09 PM	#3
joe58 diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: England	Yeah watch the video on this page and they describe what they mean. I have been thinking why not have a mono setup, and you could still go further with their philosophy and get one very good co-axial driver if you wanted to get the sound(image) totally in one place, excuse my basic science. How would a mono setup sound exactly anyway?

17th May 2011, 12:28 PM	#5
joe58 diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: England	Hi Thanks for that I thought there might be some software trickery somewhere involved and the Owl also has that little raised bit between the drivers, obviously an important piece then. I'll have a read of them a bit later when I've got a bit more time on my hands. So in response what would say a good mono set up actually sound like? Obviously you wood lose the awareness of where the instruments are coming from, but if you never on-axis and always moving around would you notice anyway?

17th May 2011, 01:28 PM	#6
Insertname diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Australia	a good mono set up can sound a bit "dense" at times on modern recordings with lots of stereo. That being said most people don't notice untill they are in front of it and listen to a piece they know quite well. interesting fact if you listen to something you know quite well, like a common tune or popular song your brain can throw in some of the stereo effect. the majority of live concerts you will see will be 90% mono! it makes it easier to get the levels right for all the listeners rather than have a sweet spot. and yet nobody notices! they hear stereo!

17th May 2011, 01:34 PM	#7
Charles Darwin diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Birmingham, UK	You can find a description and a little diagram of how the Owl works in this review: Mix guides monitors emes owl Field Test-Mix reviews the emes owl speaker system in mix guides monitors Doesn't seem to involve software (ie anything digital).

17th May 2011, 02:31 PM	#9
joe58 diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: England	Gedlee: I get where you are coming from with marketing advantages and 'normal' people not knowing the differences their hearing maybe, I was just referring to the practice of two drivers together and the stereo image they wouldn't be able to create, but thats before I realized there was electronic trickery going on. Charles: reading through it, the article does refer to it using that Embracing Sound tech. Insertname: That is something to think about. When you say 'dense' and at the risk of me sounding dense are you referring to the sound not being as open and slightly too bass heavy? If this what you mean, then maybe a smaller fullrange driver( as they lack the lower frequencies anyway) and a smaller subwoofer(say a 'fake' Tang band 6.5" with its volume slightly reduced) could get round this. (If this is a load of tosh, just say as I'm just trying to learn)

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)