Hi there leo the speakers are reviewed with a few alterationshttp://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/ipls3mtl2_e.html on TNT audio. HTH a little.
cheers steve
(OT glad it's sunny again!)
cheers steve
(OT glad it's sunny again!)
Nice speakers, I built a pair with a friend, for him (the metal dome tweeter version).
How do you find the sound? - personally I found them ultra-warm and lush, enough to make me feel sleepy, mostly a good thing mind you, with some of the crappy cds about (took my ears off with my system at the time
)...
Have you changed the resistors yet? The standard ones, are, well, standard. Audiocom MOX resistors sound better, for a small price.
We used Kimber 4vs wiring, which I believe contributes to the warm, rich sound. What cable do you use? Maybe change it for your normal speaker cable?
Also, my friend wants to change the bass inductor, as the wire gauge is quite small, and I suspect they might sound more punchy(??) with a nice fat air-cored inductor instead. He e-mailed Ivan, who told him to leave it as replacing it would make the sound muddled. I don't really believe this, can anyone shed light on the matter, for all of us?
-Simon
ps, what's the treble like on those fancy tweeters?
How do you find the sound? - personally I found them ultra-warm and lush, enough to make me feel sleepy, mostly a good thing mind you, with some of the crappy cds about (took my ears off with my system at the time
)...Have you changed the resistors yet? The standard ones, are, well, standard. Audiocom MOX resistors sound better, for a small price.
We used Kimber 4vs wiring, which I believe contributes to the warm, rich sound. What cable do you use? Maybe change it for your normal speaker cable?
Also, my friend wants to change the bass inductor, as the wire gauge is quite small, and I suspect they might sound more punchy(??) with a nice fat air-cored inductor instead. He e-mailed Ivan, who told him to leave it as replacing it would make the sound muddled. I don't really believe this, can anyone shed light on the matter, for all of us?
-Simon
ps, what's the treble like on those fancy tweeters?
SimontY said:
There are a few posts on the forum where people considered upgrading the inductors of their speaker, (not the IPL), only to be warned off it by the designer or people who really know the speaker. In some speakers, the resistance and other characteristics of the cheaper inductor is taken into account when the crossover is designed.
Well, that's the theory anyway.
Apparently you are on more solid ground upgrading the caps.
I also find the sound very smooth, but detailed as well, it's mainly the bass that needs sorting out (slow)and not as open as I would like.
I also got chance to compare the Ribbon tweeters against the standard one's, the Ribbons sounded alot better and are well worth the extra cost.
The other problem I have is the value of the X-over parts (finding suitable replacements) the value for the resistor feeding the tweeter is 9.2 ohms (you get a choice between 3 different values,standard power types) and 5uf capacitors(metalised polypropylene,supposed to be the same as Ansar's) one in the bass and one in the trebble.
Leo
I also got chance to compare the Ribbon tweeters against the standard one's, the Ribbons sounded alot better and are well worth the extra cost.
The other problem I have is the value of the X-over parts (finding suitable replacements) the value for the resistor feeding the tweeter is 9.2 ohms (you get a choice between 3 different values,standard power types) and 5uf capacitors(metalised polypropylene,supposed to be the same as Ansar's) one in the bass and one in the trebble.
Leo
thanks kelticwizard, I thought resistance might be the main thing.
leo, metalised polypropylene is not the best for x-overs apparently, you may get some good improvement using Maplins 'audiograde' polypropylene, but they will be larger physically. Good value. The ones in my hand, in my avatar, are 8.2uf iirc, and were a dramatic improvement over MKP metalised pp types.
Have fun!
-Simon
leo, metalised polypropylene is not the best for x-overs apparently, you may get some good improvement using Maplins 'audiograde' polypropylene, but they will be larger physically. Good value. The ones in my hand, in my avatar, are 8.2uf iirc, and were a dramatic improvement over MKP metalised pp types.
Have fun!
-Simon
Thanks Simon,
I would like to try the ones from Maplin but they only have 4.7uf (KR82D), Although it may be ok to try them instead of 5uf
it's the same with the resistors, I can't find any good ones in 9.2 ohms, the different resistor values I got with the IPL's made a big difference 8R,9.2R (1R, 8.2R in series) and 10R
Leo
I would like to try the ones from Maplin but they only have 4.7uf (KR82D), Although it may be ok to try them instead of 5uf
it's the same with the resistors, I can't find any good ones in 9.2 ohms, the different resistor values I got with the IPL's made a big difference 8R,9.2R (1R, 8.2R in series) and 10RLeo
Leo,
are your caps 5uf ones? If so, I'd have thought the .3uf difference would be ok, and if not you could always add a .33uf in parallel to bring it up to spec, or even more to make the sound brighter(?)
As for resistance, this is probably more detectable, or at least I find it is. I wouldn't want to run too many resistors in series, but you may have to in order to reach the desired treble balance.
One of my last speaker tweaks was to change the tweeter resistor to 1ohm, from 0.82ohm - a small but important difference. I think 1ohm difference is massive for a speaker - maybe you would like to tailor your sound one way or another? That way you wouldn't need exactly 9.2ohms
-Simon
ps- can anyone tell me/us if it's worth changing the parallel capacitor in a 2nd order x-over? (mine is a 33uf electrolytic!)
are your caps 5uf ones? If so, I'd have thought the .3uf difference would be ok, and if not you could always add a .33uf in parallel to bring it up to spec, or even more to make the sound brighter(?)
As for resistance, this is probably more detectable, or at least I find it is. I wouldn't want to run too many resistors in series, but you may have to in order to reach the desired treble balance.
One of my last speaker tweaks was to change the tweeter resistor to 1ohm, from 0.82ohm - a small but important difference. I think 1ohm difference is massive for a speaker - maybe you would like to tailor your sound one way or another? That way you wouldn't need exactly 9.2ohms
-Simon
ps- can anyone tell me/us if it's worth changing the parallel capacitor in a 2nd order x-over? (mine is a 33uf electrolytic!)
Oh yeh, there can be very large differences IME.
What surprises me more is the ignorance of some who claim it makes no difference! I mean, come on, at least think of resistance and material quality, and even more importantly - the geometry. Ah well.
Let us know how you get on with the refinements, including the speaker cables you are trying out.
Laters,
-Simon
What surprises me more is the ignorance of some who claim it makes no difference! I mean, come on, at least think of resistance and material quality, and even more importantly - the geometry. Ah well.
Let us know how you get on with the refinements, including the speaker cables you are trying out.
Laters,
-Simon
Hi people..
I see this is an ancient thread but ill post a comment for those who might read it anyway
I read that some of you are experiencing the IPL speakers to be a little bit loose and not too precise in the bass.
If any of you are still around, has the speakers become any better? By them selves or by your mods that is...
Im thinking about getting the S5TL Ribbon kit which is the most efficient kit they have.
I do have some experience with TL-speakers and after some tips from an old TDL-manual i found out two things:
1. The speakers are VERY much dependent on the height from the floor to the exitport of the transmissionline. Lowering or elevating the speaker just 10-20 mm will give substantial effect. Though, if its good or not its hard to say. Just test
This is the reason why the legendary IMF speakers are on such tall speakerstands. It will generate tons of additional bass.
2. If the bass is a little flobby and not so precise, adding some acoustic wool or stuffing in the transmissionline is very usefull. Dont put it near the exit of the line, but just behind the driver. Putting the stuffing near the end will not affect the airflow inside the speaker until its about to exit the speaker.
Putting the stuffing just behind the driver will affect the airflow right through the whole transmissionline and therefore be much more effective.
It is important to be exact with the amount of stuffing in both speakers as TL's are very sensitive about these things.
Im from Norway, so if there are any grammar errors or anything that can be missunderstood, please excuse me
And by the way. Im thinking of using the speakers on a valveamp of some sorts. Will be quite powerfull. 35-95 wpc.. Would this be sufficient for the 91 db efficient speakers?
Espen
I see this is an ancient thread but ill post a comment for those who might read it anyway
I read that some of you are experiencing the IPL speakers to be a little bit loose and not too precise in the bass.
If any of you are still around, has the speakers become any better? By them selves or by your mods that is...
Im thinking about getting the S5TL Ribbon kit which is the most efficient kit they have.
I do have some experience with TL-speakers and after some tips from an old TDL-manual i found out two things:
1. The speakers are VERY much dependent on the height from the floor to the exitport of the transmissionline. Lowering or elevating the speaker just 10-20 mm will give substantial effect. Though, if its good or not its hard to say. Just test
This is the reason why the legendary IMF speakers are on such tall speakerstands. It will generate tons of additional bass.
2. If the bass is a little flobby and not so precise, adding some acoustic wool or stuffing in the transmissionline is very usefull. Dont put it near the exit of the line, but just behind the driver. Putting the stuffing near the end will not affect the airflow inside the speaker until its about to exit the speaker.
Putting the stuffing just behind the driver will affect the airflow right through the whole transmissionline and therefore be much more effective.
It is important to be exact with the amount of stuffing in both speakers as TL's are very sensitive about these things.
Im from Norway, so if there are any grammar errors or anything that can be missunderstood, please excuse me
And by the way. Im thinking of using the speakers on a valveamp of some sorts. Will be quite powerfull. 35-95 wpc.. Would this be sufficient for the 91 db efficient speakers?
Espen
Yes, but it does depend on how loud you listen and from what distance to the speakers. Back when my friend listened to his IPLs I recall they sounded so smooth and sweet (euphonic) that a valve amp would be overkill in the euphony department.
I also remember (in his tiny bedroom) that before they were on stands the bass boom was unbearable and after they went onto the short stands / tall plinths the boom went away by 50%.
I really, really liked those speakers. They were probably as good as it gets for badly recorded stuff like pop, but not a wise choice if you want to hear what's actually on the disc. No doubt the newer versions are better in many ways.
Simon
I also remember (in his tiny bedroom) that before they were on stands the bass boom was unbearable and after they went onto the short stands / tall plinths the boom went away by 50%.
I really, really liked those speakers. They were probably as good as it gets for badly recorded stuff like pop, but not a wise choice if you want to hear what's actually on the disc. No doubt the newer versions are better in many ways.
Simon
lurer said:Hi people..
I see this is an ancient thread but ill post a comment for those who might read it anyway
I read that some of you are experiencing the IPL speakers to be a little bit loose and not too precise in the bass.
If any of you are still around, has the speakers become any better? By them selves or by your mods that is...
Im thinking about getting the S5TL Ribbon kit which is the most efficient kit they have.
I do have some experience with TL-speakers and after some tips from an old TDL-manual i found out two things:
1. The speakers are VERY much dependent on the height from the floor to the exitport of the transmissionline. Lowering or elevating the speaker just 10-20 mm will give substantial effect. Though, if its good or not its hard to say. Just test
This is the reason why the legendary IMF speakers are on such tall speakerstands. It will generate tons of additional bass.
2. If the bass is a little flobby and not so precise, adding some acoustic wool or stuffing in the transmissionline is very usefull. Dont put it near the exit of the line, but just behind the driver. Putting the stuffing near the end will not affect the airflow inside the speaker until its about to exit the speaker.
Putting the stuffing just behind the driver will affect the airflow right through the whole transmissionline and therefore be much more effective.
It is important to be exact with the amount of stuffing in both speakers as TL's are very sensitive about these things.
Im from Norway, so if there are any grammar errors or anything that can be missunderstood, please excuse me
And by the way. Im thinking of using the speakers on a valveamp of some sorts. Will be quite powerfull. 35-95 wpc.. Would this be sufficient for the 91 db efficient speakers?
Espen
I have substantially modded TDL RTL2's and would love to see this manual you refer to. Also In light of the suggestions you mention above I might have a play with the height of my speakers. I currently have them on 1.5" stone plinths, I believe these to make the sound better due to the increased stability on my carpeted floor. I never considered the height of the vent to be a consideration. The speakers are spiked so I might try screwing phillips (cross-head) screws onto the floorboards for the spikes to sit on.
When playing with the stuffing of my speakers I found that adding extra stuffing behind the midbass has the effect of making the midrange sound slightly more forward. This to my ears took away some of the smoothness of the sound so I reverted the mod. I cant recall noticing that much difference to the bass though. I might try it again and listen more carefully.
Rgds,
Mike.
Another thing to consider. When playing with the height of your TL's is that the distance of the tweeter relevant to the listening position will alter the percieved sound. Crossovers are designed with this in mind so altering the height too much may have an adverse effect on the FR.
Try listening to your speakers sitting on the floor, then in your seat, then standing up. The change in sound is astonishing....
Try listening to your speakers sitting on the floor, then in your seat, then standing up. The change in sound is astonishing....
mikesnowdon said:
I have substantially modded TDL RTL2's and would love to see this manual you refer to. Also In light of the suggestions you mention above I might have a play with the height of my speakers. I currently have them on 1.5" stone plinths, I believe these to make the sound better due to the increased stability on my carpeted floor. I never considered the height of the vent to be a consideration. The speakers are spiked so I might try screwing phillips (cross-head) screws onto the floorboards for the spikes to sit on.
When playing with the stuffing of my speakers I found that adding extra stuffing behind the midbass has the effect of making the midrange sound slightly more forward. This to my ears took away some of the smoothness of the sound so I reverted the mod. I cant recall noticing that much difference to the bass though. I might try it again and listen more carefully.
Rgds,
Mike.
Hi.
That manual was just one page cut out from a danish manual by someone on a norwegian forum. Probably not understandable for you, but here it is
: http://avforum.no/forum/attachments...materiale-transmisjnslinjer-tdl_artikel_3.jpgWhen you say height of the vent, do you mean the distance from the floor and up to the vent or something else? It was that i was trying to explain anyway hehe.
Adding som distance from the floor and up to the speaker will eliminate much of the boomy bass (like SimontY said) if you've got any
About the stuffing i tried it on my TL speakers (Old Rauna Crescendo speakers made in concrete). I wanted to tighten up the bass a tiny bit, so i put acoustilux folded into 3 layers and put behind each driver. It added in some extra bass, but also a little tighter bass.
Espen
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