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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Peerless CSX 10" Sealed bass modules
Peerless CSX 10" Sealed bass modules
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Old 11th August 2003, 10:19 AM   #1
LageB is offline LageB
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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Default Peerless CSX 10" Sealed bass modules

I am much interested on the "peerless - bass shy" thread below. Glad that the CSX 10" woofer gets attention.

I would like to try the CSX 10" in sealed enclosures in stereo bass modules to accompany my fulll range drivers with XO aro 140 Hz.

I have questions to the experts here - glad fore any replies. I am just a beginner myself but I got myself powerful software LspCAD which I now play around with.

(1)
Why is so many people looking for "flat responce down to 30-40Hz ??
In any given room this will always result in a boomy bass due to room gain wouldn't it?

When experimenting CSX 10" with LspCAD with room gain, I can get a fairly "flat" response to 30Hz in a SEALED cabinette. With BR I will on the other hand get "boom" aro 30-60Hz. The size of the boom depends on size of the room of course but for most room sizes the boom is there - in case BR.

(2)
In case of Sealed, there is quite big difference in the dB between 20-40 Hz depending on Cabinette volume:

Qtc = 0.5 good bass extension down to 30Hz
Qtc = 0.707 less good

I am writing this not from my home so I do not have LspCAD in front of me now. (Do not remember all numbers) but what I want to say is that without room gain there is very small differenses in frequency responce for different Box sealed volumes. However, once you consider room gain it makes huge differences especially in the range 20-40Hz.

My 2:nd question then are:

In the case sealed CSX 10" - the bigger volume always simulates better (best is infinite box volume). Are then no disadvantage of big box ?? How about transient response and so on? Shall I try keep Volume down for some reason ?

Peerless recommends 50L sealed box. Is it to limit cone excursion ?


LageB
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Old 11th August 2003, 11:40 AM   #2
Pete Mazz is offline Pete Mazz
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Up until last nite I was running CSX10s for bass. I had them in sealed .7Q enclosures and they had good in-room output to 30Hz. A pretty good driver for the money, IMO.

I agree with you on the sealed enclosure/room gain comments. I wind up with ~flat in-room response with all the sealed enclosures I've tried. Why build vented and then have to EQ down to achieve a good response?

As for box size and tuning.....Too large an enclosure will have the driver rolling off too early and can be considered dry sounding. Too small an enclosure and you wind up with a hump in the FR before the FR starts to roll off. Transient response/Group delay also suffers.

In my room, a Qtc of ~.6 seems to blend well with my room gain and yields ~flat response/nice smooth rolloff.

Pete
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Old 11th August 2003, 04:41 PM   #3
jshammond is offline jshammond
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I have just finished building a sealed Sub using the Peerless CSX 10" (850146 I think) in a 46l box.

Before I built it I played around with various software and looked at lots of graphs, which mostly meant nothing to me... ;-)

Anyway - I heard someone who did a similar thing with the peerless 8" and thought, enough messing around, I'll just do it.

And the important thing - it sounds great.

With a 100W amp it is way more powerful than I need for the room it is in. Nice and controlled with stereo music, and possibly over the top with DVD movies (still got some tuning to do).

Not quite the small box I thought I could hide behind the sofa though - at 20kg and the size of a small coffe table. Oh well.

James
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Old 12th August 2003, 12:44 AM   #4
Pete Mazz is offline Pete Mazz
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46 liters unstuffed gets you ~.71 Qtc. Fully stuffed ~.66. Should work very well either way.

Pete
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Old 12th August 2003, 07:46 AM   #5
LageB is offline LageB
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Seems I can not go wrong wth CSX 10" in sealed boxes...


Big size of box is not a problem in my case. If I choose 50L I know I will be safe, because many people seems adopt that size and it is also what peerless is recommending.

Question ??
------------
But what happen if I build a very big Box - say 100L ??
What are the drawbacks ?



If I select a box of 100L I get much improved LF extension in my room simulations. The issue that the driver would be rolling off too early is not a problem because it is really very minor deviations - compared to room gain.


LageB
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Old 12th August 2003, 10:52 AM   #6
Mos Fetish is offline Mos Fetish  New Zealand
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Mmmm...

Couple of questions:

How much room gain is the software adding at 20-60hz?

What would be the max excursion on the CSX 10" at high power levels?

Mos
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Old 12th August 2003, 05:23 PM   #7
Eul is offline Eul  Netherlands
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A 100L box will still make it sound dry...
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Old 12th August 2003, 05:50 PM   #8
DSummer is offline DSummer  United States
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Default Peerless 10" woofers

I have a pair of 850145 (4 ohm) with no use in mint condition. If anybody interested, can send me an email.. I'm willing to get rid of it.
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Old 12th August 2003, 07:12 PM   #9
LageB is offline LageB
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Mos,

I made sim as follows, as example:

(1)
QB3/SQB3 Alignment, 80L Box, Port length 56cm

(2)
Without room gain I have (as reference 96dB flat with -3dB at 30Hz

(3)
With room gain 3.5x5meter room

100Hz 96dB
90Hz 97dB
80Hz 98dB
70Hz 98dB
60Hz 101dB
50Hz 105dB
40Hz 108Hz
30Hz 109Hz
20Hz 104Hz



LageB
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Old 12th August 2003, 08:14 PM   #10
Mos Fetish is offline Mos Fetish  New Zealand
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Hi Lage

5x3.5m is not a very large room, so I expect the room gain would be substantial. My listening room is 10x6m (x 2.3 high). I expect the room gain would be far less at those dimensions.

Mos
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