Onken bass box with 2 Eminence Deltalite ll 2510 10" bass drivers - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 9th May 2011, 04:58 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by GM View Post
Greets!

For the math challenged, he further complicated it by using scientific notation and m^2 for 'Sd' instead of the more common cm^2, which is where you messed up, so one must have a conversion chart or program such as 'Convert' to help folks like us.GM
Google can do nearly all your conversions these days.
simply type 10 cubed cm in cubed m and it will kick out the answer, I just used 10 as an example...
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Old 9th May 2011, 02:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by albertli View Post
All my amps are 8 ohm.
I thought I'd put them up for the other project.
Thanks
You're welcome!

Good plan with these drivers. For future reference though................

I assume this is just the nominal tap rating, so isn't what we're referring to: Amplifier Output Impedance

This doesn't rule out their output impedance being this high or even higher, I've seen as high as 20 ohms back when horn drivers were typically 16 ohms, so there's the matter of driver selection when driven by a high output impedance which make the 2510 a poor choice if not in a TL or similar loading since it already has a Qts on the high side for vented box loading: Highly Reactive Loads and SET Amplifiers

Regardless, to fully realize the inherent potential of all SET tube and OTL amps, a loudspeaker of 14 ohms or greater is mandatory to maximize power conversion efficiency. Anything less involves a huge compromise, so most drivers will need to be wired in series.

GM
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Old 9th May 2011, 03:03 PM   #23
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Hey Albert,
An idea could be to go active and run your bass-sytem with SS and use your 300B/2A3 for mid and high. By doing it this way you can also remove the filter-components (coils) that add resistance.
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Old 9th May 2011, 03:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by jamikl View Post
ICMD is the one I have but I thought you made it available.
You thought right , I uploaded CMD's to e-snips back in '08 after folks complained about all the original links being dead.

GM
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Old 9th May 2011, 05:09 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by revintage View Post
Hey Albert,
An idea could be to go active and run your bass-sytem with SS and use your 300B/2A3 for mid and high. By doing it this way you can also remove the filter-components (coils) that add resistance.
Lars,

Active might be a good idea, but my intention is to run passive for a three way system. I thought I better go with the tradition route with 414 since infos are easily available.

Albert
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Old 9th May 2011, 06:28 PM   #26
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Hey,
IŽve got a small stash of 414-8A(must be -A or -B) and earlier ran "Petite Onken". I am now working on a midbass-horn for them. With PT best results where achieved with active. Whatever they sound great.

Take a look in the spreadsheet what happens when adding external resistance. Your tube amps will not do. But adding 0,2ohm and running SS will not harm.
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Old 10th May 2011, 04:57 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by digits View Post
Google can do nearly all your conversions these days.
simply type 10 cubed cm in cubed m and it will kick out the answer, I just used 10 as an example...
Good to know, thanks! It doesn't seem to work quite the same for me though WRT to in. 350.1 cm^2 in m^2 converted it to milliliters, but when to was used it did the conversion correctly. For now though, I think I'll stick to using Convert.

GM
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Old 10th May 2011, 06:37 AM   #28
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Hey guys,

IŽve taken the liberty to adjust the spreadsheet to take Sd in cm^2. Also removed one unnecessary decimal.

Actually the original Onken calculations from the Petite Onken article in LŽAudiophile " only needs Vas, Qts and Fs or Mms, Qts, Sd and Fs. One might then add Re to make it possible to input Rg.

Maybe I should reduce the spreadsheet to make it less confusing?

http://www.revintage.se/ONKENcm3.xls

Last edited by revintage; 10th May 2011 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 10th May 2011, 10:17 AM   #29
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This is a somewhat easier to read spreadsheet. Qms and Qes are needed for adding Rg. The starting figures are for "Petite Onken" with Altec 414-8A/B.

http://www.revintage.se/ONKENcm3414.xls
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Old 10th May 2011, 02:34 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by revintage View Post
IŽve taken the liberty to adjust the spreadsheet to take Sd in cm^2.

Actually the original Onken calculations from the Petite Onken article in LŽAudiophile " only needs Vas, Qts and Fs or Mms, Qts, Sd and Fs.
I actually did this right after it was published and suggested it in a pm, but got no response IIRC. At the time, JMMLC was helping me update mine when time permitted after Guy Pelletier [another French Canadian] I had met on one of the mailing lists pointed out that my formulas didn't match the original's; but the day I went on-line to announce I had a proper Onken calculator available, I found CMB's had beat me to it, so didn't bother since I didn't want to 'steal his thunder'.

Apparently he considered my suggestion rude/whatever because the next time I posted on one his threads he got really rude/cross with me for no apparent reason, basically telling me he wasn't interested in anything I had to say IIRC.

I started to upload it or mine when the old links went dead and again the other day, but having never seen the original document[s], didn't know if his was 'by the book' or JMMLC's corrections to mine which only uses Vas, Fs, Qts and the driver's effective radius. There's some other detail differences, but without the original document[s] I've no way to know which is the most correct.

Not that I care though as I've periodically noted along with the 'why' and all things considered, wished I'd gone ahead and posted mine anyway to give folks another option.

Regardless, if I wanted a fine performing cab with the Onken 'look' for dual 2510s, I'd make the vents full size and as long as required and damp the cabs to 'taste' same as a TL, though wouldn't drive them with a high output impedance since it will make the them relatively to outright huge depending on how high it is.

GM
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