Active high dynamics/SPL & high performance loudspeaker system for my living room…!
Why am I building such a big active loudspeaker system? - You might ask - because I have the opportunity, because I like real physical dynamics and yet I want the sublime sound quality at all levels. With these requirements I think the only way is going real active – no passive bi/tri/quad-amping, please! It also requires the use of high sensitive drivers with high power ratings and really optimized toward a specific frequency range.
My choice of drivers is from three manufactures, but I am not 100% certain of the midrange drivers and a fourth manufacture has been considered. Well – the drivers have already been purchased:
2 pcs Beyma TPL-150H
4 pcs Eighteensound 6NMB420
8 pcs Sica 10BS3PL – 4 ohms
4 pcs Eighteensound 18NLW9000
I aim for crossover points at 80Hz, 400Hz and 2kHz. I will make the system in 4 boxes – two front and two corner subs. The front will be closed enclosure and the subs will be vented – I will try a relative low tuning of the ports.
The project is well under way, but comments and suggestions are appreciated anyway.
EG should I reconsider my choice of Eighteensound 6NMB420? I started out with B&C 6MDN44 or PHL 6” drivers, but an offer for the 4 pcs 6NMB420 was a bit too tempting.
Or do you have any other driver suggestions for the 400Hz – 2 kHz range that will be able to keep up with the rest of the system?
Why am I building such a big active loudspeaker system? - You might ask - because I have the opportunity, because I like real physical dynamics and yet I want the sublime sound quality at all levels. With these requirements I think the only way is going real active – no passive bi/tri/quad-amping, please! It also requires the use of high sensitive drivers with high power ratings and really optimized toward a specific frequency range.
My choice of drivers is from three manufactures, but I am not 100% certain of the midrange drivers and a fourth manufacture has been considered. Well – the drivers have already been purchased:
2 pcs Beyma TPL-150H
4 pcs Eighteensound 6NMB420
8 pcs Sica 10BS3PL – 4 ohms
4 pcs Eighteensound 18NLW9000
I aim for crossover points at 80Hz, 400Hz and 2kHz. I will make the system in 4 boxes – two front and two corner subs. The front will be closed enclosure and the subs will be vented – I will try a relative low tuning of the ports.
The project is well under way, but comments and suggestions are appreciated anyway.
EG should I reconsider my choice of Eighteensound 6NMB420? I started out with B&C 6MDN44 or PHL 6” drivers, but an offer for the 4 pcs 6NMB420 was a bit too tempting.
Or do you have any other driver suggestions for the 400Hz – 2 kHz range that will be able to keep up with the rest of the system?
Simple, because you should!
Have you seen 'our terry's' Franks?
Probably the best system I have ever heard, and many other' who've heard it would say the same. Go to the last few posts for the final 4 way incarnation.
I've tried to get him to consider the Beymas but he seems to like the Peerless and Morel fuses, sorry tweets he has. I would like some too, but don't have an application for them at this time.
Are you going to make the boxes WWMT?
What are you using for xovers?
I think the 18Sound will be fine for the mid and I certainly wouldn't worry until I'd done some testing. Xover points look OK for a first approximation, but active is easy to change, so don't sweat it.
I'd also suggest you consider 4 sub boxes and locate them how works best after reading the Welti, Geddes and Parnham.
@ Brett
Thanks for the link – I haven’t seen Terry’s loudspeaker project before – it seem to end up a little like my configuration. I fully understand that you recommend Terry the Beymas and he really should consider them seriously. Pk (diyaudio member) also ended up with these drivers in his active horn system after using compression drivers earlier. Some years ago I tested a set of Mundorf AMT just placed on top of an existing loudspeaker not really an ideal test condition but they performed way better than the ScanSpeak domes – much smoother and less distortion. I am not too worried about the 6” 18Sound, but I am still considering the B&C drivers – the initial test of the fronts will show what to do.
The front boxes will be WWMTMWW just like my current ScanSpeak towers.
The ScanSpeak towers have a real forward and undistorded sound at all levels. They aren’t bad at all, but one wants more – I think it a human failure
I have considered my options for the subs, but there isn’t that much possibilities given that I want them to go real low with capability of high SPL – so I end up with a vented box volume of +500 litres per two drivers - although the ideal for me is reflex horns. I also considered the multiple subs, but again the placement of them would be none desirable and I have built a set of corner subs for a friend many years ago with a unparallel performance. At the time we used RCF L18P200, which have a Hi-Fi like sound that I prefer over maximum SPL. Later I tested quite a lot of drivers in my own constructed sub horns and found the 18Sound 18LW1400 to be just better in all aspects compared to the other contestants (JBL, EV, Precision Device, Beyma, Fane, DAS, Celestion, RCF). The test was performed “direct” AB where each driver had its own output channel on a LAB2000 PRO amp. The test was made outside on 8 identical subs…!
Therefore I was going to “upgrade” to the 18LW2400 for my new system, but I was persuaded to invest in the 18NLW9000, which he said was so much better when they made an AB test.
Thanks for the link – I haven’t seen Terry’s loudspeaker project before – it seem to end up a little like my configuration. I fully understand that you recommend Terry the Beymas and he really should consider them seriously. Pk (diyaudio member) also ended up with these drivers in his active horn system after using compression drivers earlier. Some years ago I tested a set of Mundorf AMT just placed on top of an existing loudspeaker not really an ideal test condition but they performed way better than the ScanSpeak domes – much smoother and less distortion. I am not too worried about the 6” 18Sound, but I am still considering the B&C drivers – the initial test of the fronts will show what to do.
The front boxes will be WWMTMWW just like my current ScanSpeak towers.
The ScanSpeak towers have a real forward and undistorded sound at all levels. They aren’t bad at all, but one wants more – I think it a human failure
I have considered my options for the subs, but there isn’t that much possibilities given that I want them to go real low with capability of high SPL – so I end up with a vented box volume of +500 litres per two drivers - although the ideal for me is reflex horns. I also considered the multiple subs, but again the placement of them would be none desirable and I have built a set of corner subs for a friend many years ago with a unparallel performance. At the time we used RCF L18P200, which have a Hi-Fi like sound that I prefer over maximum SPL. Later I tested quite a lot of drivers in my own constructed sub horns and found the 18Sound 18LW1400 to be just better in all aspects compared to the other contestants (JBL, EV, Precision Device, Beyma, Fane, DAS, Celestion, RCF). The test was performed “direct” AB where each driver had its own output channel on a LAB2000 PRO amp. The test was made outside on 8 identical subs…!
Therefore I was going to “upgrade” to the 18LW2400 for my new system, but I was persuaded to invest in the 18NLW9000, which he said was so much better when they made an AB test.
@ henry
I can see your point in “only” using 18” + 10” + TPL-150H, but I will try to make an ultimate system and the TPL-150H will actually set the limit in SPL even when I use the 6” drivers as I see it. There is a tendency of more distortion of a driver when you push it to its lower bandwidth limit and I don’t want this. I want headroom – more headroom, yet still very high quality sound.
I will be using my DCN28
I can see your point in “only” using 18” + 10” + TPL-150H, but I will try to make an ultimate system and the TPL-150H will actually set the limit in SPL even when I use the 6” drivers as I see it. There is a tendency of more distortion of a driver when you push it to its lower bandwidth limit and I don’t want this. I want headroom – more headroom, yet still very high quality sound.
I will be using my DCN28
TJ is content with them I think, so as long as he doesn't eat any more of them, he'll be fine. He's a very pragmatic technician (he'd be horrified if I called him an audiophile).
It will be interesting to see what you think of them, and especially any measurements you might take.
My (4) surrounds are 15 / 10 / CD+WG and whilst they are overkill for the current apartment, I also own a home in the country with a very large open plan room where I think they'll be perfect. I've also designed them so I can easily make them 4 way by adding a 6" later if I choose to. That was part of the original design before I moved where I am now.
Again, that is very similar to the original concept this project started out with but one of the 10's replaced by a 15, and some big meaty subs below for HT; it was designed for both. Original inspirations were Stig Erik's previous build (there's a thread here somewhere) and Jack Bouska's but morphed into Unitys.
I'm trying to get to a point I was at 20 years ago, where I was happy enough with everything that I didn't touch it for a decade. It's nice to do stuff 'just so' and know you can crank it safely when needed and it will shrug off any dynamic demand you make of it.The ScanSpeak towers have a real forward and undistorded sound at all levels. They aren’t bad at all, but one wants more – I think it a human failure
Define low; HT low or regular music low? For the latter, I'd them make them a PPSL.
I look forward to watching how your come out.
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I built one raw MDF sub box yesterday and at the moment I am break-in the drivers with a tone generator.
It seems as if the tuning is about right in the neighbourhood of 22Hz as calculated. Turning up the volume a little I have some concerns about my house – will it still stand at the levels that two of these corner placed sub are capable of at full throttle
At the break-in of the drivers I (of course) reverse the phase of one of the drivers
It seems as if the tuning is about right in the neighbourhood of 22Hz as calculated. Turning up the volume a little I have some concerns about my house – will it still stand at the levels that two of these corner placed sub are capable of at full throttle
At the break-in of the drivers I (of course) reverse the phase of one of the drivers
This is how the front and sub was planned to look like
The last few days I have been building boxes, not quite finished though.
I will test the raw boxes to see how they perform before I make the final finish
Hi Robert,
Your cabinets look really great! I look forward to hear about your listening impressions from the whole system
Do you really need to tune the subs as low as 22 Hz? (I assume that the setup is for music and not for HT)
Good luck and happy listening!
Best regards
Peter
Initial test – testing the connections
I did make the initial connections test yesterday. A simple setup was created with crossover points at 80Hz, 400Hz & 2kHz. All drivers and amplifiers were connected correct – so that was a good start. I also listen to the setup for a while, but I didn’t like what I heard – the system sounded awful.
This is how the initial simple setup looks like:
But don’t despair it got better later yesterday – I will make a little report tomorrow… time to go to bed
Just one more picture:
Stay tuned - thanks Robert
I did make the initial connections test yesterday. A simple setup was created with crossover points at 80Hz, 400Hz & 2kHz. All drivers and amplifiers were connected correct – so that was a good start. I also listen to the setup for a while, but I didn’t like what I heard – the system sounded awful.
This is how the initial simple setup looks like:
But don’t despair it got better later yesterday – I will make a little report tomorrow… time to go to bed
Just one more picture:
Stay tuned - thanks Robert
No wonder it didn't sound good, you've got the speakers in the wrong position!
Ahhhh ha ha - they were placed like this at the initial connection test:
It's a bit better this way
Well - it wasn't the placement - I am used to have a pretty smooth response from my loudspeakers
Just making some crossover points on drivers that measures like this will not make me happy.
As I mentioned in an earlier post it got better later that day. I made a quick setup (15min including measurements) based upon measurements of the horn, mids, and basses, but I was too lacy to measure sub as only one sub is finished. This is the frequency response of that setup (simulated and it will measure like this, if I had made a measurement).
The one sub is only crossed at 70Hz (no EQ) and does a formidable job placed in the corner. It will most likely be much better when both subs are up and running. I have had a customer round for a listen and he was very impressed at this early stage.
I am pretty happy already
Why haven't you countersunk the drivers?
But damn the look impressive
Thanks
The boxes ain't finished - this is only the initial testing. The real front piece isn't mounted yet - both the front boxes and the subs will have an extra front, when I have time for it. Actually I also ran out of damping material - so the 10" driver enclosures has a minimum and the one sub has no damping at all
BUT the system already sound incredible
I support Robert's statement about the incredible sound! -I heard the system yesterday and at a point, I was in doubt whether it was the building or the drivers, which was the moving part.... This system in a 40 Sqm living room will be able to generate whatever sound you would like at whatever level you would wish...
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