Hi Shaun,
Have a look at the attached - Why do you think it's good enough to overlook peaks just because the manufacturer only measure to 20kHz and smooth the "rest". Normally I would say that you have to look to the "break ups" (= heavy distortion) in the upper range of a driver - will normally give some problems further down in the frequency range if not dealt with.
Do any of you diyAudio members have any measurements of the TPL-150H? Also about 20kHz !
I actually sit on-axis and in the setup the peaks are minimized with a few PEQ to avoid any disturbances. I have to say that the sound isn't at all bad - and I will probably be able to tweak / fine tune the sound 20-30% more improvement.
@ kipman 725
Thanks
NO - I haven't tried constant directivity speakers.
The room is a big room combining living room, dining room, small office space and kitchen - very nice for family activities but not for very high SPL listening levels and I doubt that a carpet will do the trick in this case.
I have a smaller dedicated listening room in conjunction with the electronics workshop and it very very good for listening, but it will not accommodate the High Dynamics system.
I will tweak the system over the summer and see if it does the trick - so that I will keep the system. Otherwise I have the excellent ScanSpeak towers that I can upgrade to perform maybe even better... One thing is for sure, I will never be able to exploit the full dynamics of the current system.
Robert GS
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If I look at the projects here Hi-End and Hi-Eff loudspeakers system 2 and here Acoustic Elegance • View topic - TD15H + Beyma TPL-150 2-Way Build, it does indeed look like the manufacturer has published very optimistic curves for the driver.
And no, am not saying to accept the manufacturer's data. It is always better to measure. I still suggest, though, that you give it a shot with minimal HF equalisation. Should be easy enough with the tools at hand.
And no, am not saying to accept the manufacturer's data. It is always better to measure. I still suggest, though, that you give it a shot with minimal HF equalisation. Should be easy enough with the tools at hand.
heres my measurements of a tpl TPL-150H its flat all the way down to 1k hz the pic is with xo in place no eq. almost +/- 1db 1/24th
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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response curve
Greetings,
That response curve you posted is similar (but not exactly the same) as to
the Stage Accompany SA 8535. The two drivers resemble each other. I said to myself if I ever lost the SA's, I'd consider the Beyma.
What I did (to tame that very mild peak) was use an in-line single high quality cap, but of course to still use an active crossover. Of course as low as the OP is crossing, a notch should be in better order than a rolloff cap. Then again, that slight variable in response in the over all system may not be bothersome at all.
Greetings,
That response curve you posted is similar (but not exactly the same) as to
the Stage Accompany SA 8535. The two drivers resemble each other. I said to myself if I ever lost the SA's, I'd consider the Beyma.
What I did (to tame that very mild peak) was use an in-line single high quality cap, but of course to still use an active crossover. Of course as low as the OP is crossing, a notch should be in better order than a rolloff cap. Then again, that slight variable in response in the over all system may not be bothersome at all.
that is my measurement of the Beyma TPL-150 with wave guide, on axis, at 1m distance :
AV Eikon : finished - Page 2 - Audio Voice Acoustics
AV Eikon : finished - Page 2 - Audio Voice Acoustics
I have noticed a few comments about the frequency response plot on the TPL150H datasheet being optimistically flat. IMO, it looks flat because of the scale of the sensitivity axis being from 20dB to 120dB. If the axis was from 80dB to 120dB, I think the curve would be as jagged as the ones posted in this thread.
As a movie sound mixer, I have always been fascinated by how Europeans tend to scale their sound a lot bigger than their video displays. For those of us deep into HT, we always recommend an equal scaling of both the sound and the picture. With big sound and small picture(and visa versa), our brain will never let our eyes and ears suspend the belief we are really hearing something that is "real"
Are you suggesting that the "sound image" is proportionally as big as the physical speakers in that picture?
No I think he is saying in order for the brain to experience the fullness of the audio / visual of a movie, you cant have one disproportionate to the other. i.e. Bose 2 channel with 185" screen.
I tend to agree... Watching Avatar on my little 27.5" computer monitor with great sound, the whole movie I was wanting for a bigger screen to wow my senses.
I have since upgraded to a 55" 3D TV, but once I have all the surround channels up and running I am going to need to bring out the projector to keep it balanced.
I tend to agree... Watching Avatar on my little 27.5" computer monitor with great sound, the whole movie I was wanting for a bigger screen to wow my senses.
I have since upgraded to a 55" 3D TV, but once I have all the surround channels up and running I am going to need to bring out the projector to keep it balanced.
Here's mine. It's just the driver/horn with no baffle.
It will extend further down when mounted on a fairly wide speaker baffle. I have crossed it over at 900 Hz in one design I did with two 15" mid/woofers.
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Hi Frank and all at diyAudio,
An update to the story of my ambitious high dynamics system…
The ambition was to build a system that could satisfy my desire to play very loud once in a while and maintain sound quality now that I didn’t have my PA disco system anymore as I stopped doing gigs and the system was sold.
The latest PA system featured my own constructed speaker boxes like the previous systems - two types of top 1.4”+15” and 1.4”+dual 15” and my “small” reflex sub bass horns (6 pcs) see attached pictures. Especially a lot of energy had been focused on development of sub bass horns over the years. See attached pictures.
The latest system was built in 2000 and it was gradually reduced to “only” one small top + sub each side and the last bits were sold in 2008. I have always loved the sound / attach of a horn loaded bass and combined with a port it also had the body that I think is required to reproduce the music truthfully. Over the years I have compared my sub bass horns with many different incarnations of ported bas boxes – I literally hated the performance of the ported counterparts (also the few ones I tried building myself).
Paradoxically, it was precisely ported bass boxes I decided to build for my living room because I wanted full potential from 20Hz and up. The idea was that the many 10 " drivers would give the attack, which I knew I could not get from the dual 18" in a reflex construction. The attach in the system was an essential part for me – the thing that I was missed the most in the Hi-Fi system that I currently had – actually I have never heard a Hi-Fi loudspeaker that will come close to anything that the ported sub bass horns can do and never will.
In the end of June this summer a friend and I had a go at the high dynamics system in my living room now that I had it up and running. He’s a sound engineer and he has a gift when it comes to analyzing the sound and tuning systems. Actually I don’t really know if he can enjoy music – always on the outlook for faults in reproduction – occupation damage. After we had tuned the system all over from scratch we ended up with a system that performed considerately better and I listened to the system for about 14 days with some more fine-tuning by myself. The result was quite good and some enthusiast also heard the system after this last update and approved the result… BUT I was not quite happy – In fact I realized this was not what I had desired although it did something quite good.
The high dynamics system lacked the attack from my PA horns – the 10” drivers was not up to the job, the subs were very sub “subbish” and last an annoying “detail” that the Beyma TPL-150H horns / 6” mid drivers didn’t mix / ad up in the listening position of my listening room – you have to move back another 2 meters before it added up perfectly (not possible). This I have experienced in two other systems using the Beyma TPL-150H besides my own – strange or not at all strange when one thinks of it - horns. In the last setup phase we tuned the TPL-150H with a little EQ around 4kHz taking out some harshness and this improved the sound, but again the perfect listening position wasn’t in the listening position of my living room. Further the living needs more acoustical damping done to the room to take on the high SPL that the system was capable of.
Current situation is that the sub boxes have been demolished and the 18NLW9000 drivers sold to guy here in Denmark that will hopefully build the ported sub bass horn we designed together in the spring. This way the drivers will be used in the “only” proper way such nice drivers should be used IMO.
The front speakers is still here and I have ported the 10” drivers enclosure to extend the low end – now flat 50Hz – dropping very very fast below 50Hz. I don’t like the sound of it – I don’t get what would make me happy – the full body of the ported sub bass horns.
So currently I am enjoying the forgiving sound of the ScanSpeak loudspeakers with the very wide and near perfect imaging – the speakers adds up perfectly and disappears – and best of all they are listenable allover the room.
The high dynamics are history in my living room and at the moment I haven’t really come up with an alternative to the ScanSpeak… Arhhhh maybe an new version with the same concept and enclosure improvements and 4-way instead of 3-way and more power – something like 2 x 10” (maybe 4 x 10” in compound) 2-4 x 6”, 2 x 4-5” + no horn AMT – all Hi-Fi drivers from ScanSpeak and/or Accuton and/or SB Acoustics and Mundorf.
Robert GS
Attachments
As a movie sound mixer, I have always been fascinated by how Europeans tend to scale their sound a lot bigger than their video displays. For those of us deep into HT, we always recommend an equal scaling of both the sound and the picture. With big sound and small picture(and visa versa), our brain will never let our eyes and ears suspend the belief we are really hearing something that is "real"
Well - the room is used for watching TV and listening stereo and for the family to live in - there is no home theatre here any more. The closest we come to that is when we watch X-factor or similar on the TV with sound over the speakers. I have no intention of installing any surround sound in my living room ever again. IMO it needs a dedicated room like some of my friends have.
Robert GS
Thank you - I see near same frequency response measured around 1m and in the boxes.
Robert GS
Attachments
Status at the end of 2016
Well - a new system is on the steps so for the time being I have a modified version of the Faktum loudspeaker kit - 4ohms bass driver all Scan Speak. It's of course active powered by a set of Coolback 500 and DCN28 as digital pre-amplifier. See attached pictures.
The new loudspeaker system will consist of 4 closed 100 litres subs with 15" Dayton and the good thing these are already built
One of these days I will assembled the main speaker enclosures - all pieces of the "puzzle" are ready except the 4-channel amplifiers that will be sitting in the back just like the current Faktum speakers. The difference is that there will be no digital filter in the speakers and much more power 2 x HPA2K modules and 2 x PA3CC modules. DCN28 will preform the filtering in the new system.
Drivers in the main speakers will be Accuton tweeter and mid
...AND a change of mind ended up with 2 pcs. "PRO" 8" drivers from Oberton per side.
I hope this setup will do better for my flavour - time will show.
To satisfy my need for high SPL once in a while I have a set of PA speakers in the pipeline - which will be all HORNS. I have decided for a short cut and bought finish 1" Eighteensound and 8" RCF horns (H6000). 8" Sica drivers and 2 alternatives for the 1" drivers Oberton ND45 and Eighteensound NSD1095N.
I will use the "old" 10" Sica drivers for the bass and lower mid - 4 pcs in all per side. All these drivers will be in the "top" speaker-boxes and the enclosure will form as horn for the 10" drivers.
Now the good thing... the subs has already been built and similar to the 2000 PA subs with some minor changes.
That is the status - Rome wasn't built in a day
Well - a new system is on the steps so for the time being I have a modified version of the Faktum loudspeaker kit - 4ohms bass driver all Scan Speak. It's of course active powered by a set of Coolback 500 and DCN28 as digital pre-amplifier. See attached pictures.
The new loudspeaker system will consist of 4 closed 100 litres subs with 15" Dayton and the good thing these are already built
One of these days I will assembled the main speaker enclosures - all pieces of the "puzzle" are ready except the 4-channel amplifiers that will be sitting in the back just like the current Faktum speakers. The difference is that there will be no digital filter in the speakers and much more power 2 x HPA2K modules and 2 x PA3CC modules. DCN28 will preform the filtering in the new system.
Drivers in the main speakers will be Accuton tweeter and mid
...AND a change of mind ended up with 2 pcs. "PRO" 8" drivers from Oberton per side.
I hope this setup will do better for my flavour - time will show.
To satisfy my need for high SPL once in a while I have a set of PA speakers in the pipeline - which will be all HORNS. I have decided for a short cut and bought finish 1" Eighteensound and 8" RCF horns (H6000). 8" Sica drivers and 2 alternatives for the 1" drivers Oberton ND45 and Eighteensound NSD1095N.
I will use the "old" 10" Sica drivers for the bass and lower mid - 4 pcs in all per side. All these drivers will be in the "top" speaker-boxes and the enclosure will form as horn for the 10" drivers.
Now the good thing... the subs has already been built
and similar to the 2000 PA subs with some minor changes.That is the status - Rome wasn't built in a day
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- Status
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