another post from a newb, sigh (or To Kit or not to Kit?)

[freakydrew]

I know, eh?
another newbie post asking about what speakers are right for me...must be a million of these posts!
this is part of the problem! i have sent a long time reading the posts and the posts and the posts!

I guess my question, in the end, is relatively simple - for my first build do I buy a kit with the parts or do I buy a bunch of parts and hope it works?

or do I just go buy some vintage speakers off of kijiji? just kidding, I would not be on this forum if that was what I wanted to do...

My descent into the world of all things audio began with headphones. From my reading on this forum and similar ones, speakers are a lot like headphones (duh - because they are speakers for your head!), in that everyone has an opinion and to simply ask "what should I buy?" can lead to 432 or more different answers so I am really not looking at specific products at this time.

I am just learning all about electronics and circuitry and all that fascinating stuff. I am excellent with a soldering iron and have a great set up for making all my own cables so the actual act of making a crossover is not scary (HOW to make a crossover properly is a different matter). Woodworking is also not a concern either, so I would only need the plans and a internal components.

What I am looking for is two nice speakers to listen to records on, that will be the only application for my first build. Do I be safe and go Parts-Express and buy something like this:
TriTrix MTM TL Components Kit

or do I try and find a my own tweeters, mids and woofers to make a nice 3-way and hope to figure out the crossover?

(p.s. any Canadians recommend a good online source?)

Help me please. this will be my first build and probably not my last, I just need to know which is "safest" - tried and tested kit, or everything from scratch?

thanks so much

and apologies if this exact thread exists because I missed it!

[AllenB]

Nothing wrong with the vintage route, in my opinion. Say you find some that you like the sound of for 2 dollars in a second hand shop. You then uprate some of the crossover components, play with the damping material inside, brace the panels, round the fronts, completely redesign the crossovers, change drivers, etc. etc., give them to a friend, do it again... It's probably how many of us learned.

[flaevor]

I would always recommend building a kit first, especially if you do not have measuring equipment.

Once you have done this, you will know what building a speaker entails. If your experience was like mine you will also realize there are a lot of little details you can improve upon next time, that are just related to the actual construction or finishing. Going with a kit saves a lot of time and guess work and if you are like most people on here your first build won't be your last.

[ScottG]

Most "kits" I'd stay away from.

Generally find a very well documented plan from some of the best designers. If you can't do the wood working yourself then have someone else do it for you provided you can get it done at the right price.

My suggestion would be the PMS:

Poor Man'

It's *very* well designed. (..and just about every designer that has done a wide curved design like this has liked the end-result.)
It has good bass extension for its size.
It's very well documented.
It has different tweeter options.
None of the drivers are terribly expensive.
The wood-working (cutting) is relatively easy for an experienced wood worker with a good table saw and router.
Efficiency is decent.
Impedance profile is relatively benign (..and should work well with a wide range of amplifiers.)
..etc.

You can even improve on the sound by using better capacitors (particularly for the smaller value capacitors).

[freakydrew]

Originally Posted by ScottG

Most "kits" I'd stay away from.

Generally find a very well documented plan from some of the best designers. If you can't do the wood working yourself then have someone else do it for you provided you can get it done at the right price.

My suggestion would be the PMS:

Poor Man'

It's *very* well designed. (..and just about every designer that has done a wide curved design like this has liked the end-result.)
It has good bass extension for its size.
It's very well documented.
It has different tweeter options.
None of the drivers are terribly expensive.
The wood-working (cutting) is relatively easy for an experienced wood worker with a good table saw and router.
Efficiency is decent.
Impedance profile is relatively benign (..and should work well with a wide range of amplifiers.)
..etc.

You can even improve on the sound by using better capacitors (particularly for the smaller value capacitors).

those are sexy!
although Poor Mans' appears a misnomer...what would these cost?

I appreciate all the help and once this bug catches I will be here a lot more begging for more help!

The idea of buying an old pair of speakers and playing around with the, seems to be the best idea for a first attempt. I am looking at a pair of Nikko's which comes with an amp for $50, hard to go wrong there.

fix them up, rebuild crossovers and keep my fingers crossed...then (hopefully) onto bigger and better things (like that so gorgeous Poor Mans!)

thanks again

[planet10]

Originally Posted by freakydrew

I

Do I be safe and go Parts-Express and buy something like this:
TriTrix MTM TL Components Kit

Not particularily safe. It seems to be a poorly designd TL, and i've not seen any solid reviews on it.

For a 1st project go with something simple & well documented. As it won't likely be your last, you don't want to spend a lot of loonis.

Whether it is a kit or whether you buy the parts yourself makes little diference.

Can you build the boxes from scratch.

In Canada, Bob in Abbotsford has som parts kits.

dave

[ScottG]

Originally Posted by freakydrew

those are sexy!
although Poor Mans' appears a misnomer...what would these cost?

I appreciate all the help and once this bug catches I will be here a lot more begging for more help!

The idea of buying an old pair of speakers and playing around with the, seems to be the best idea for a first attempt. I am looking at a pair of Nikko's which comes with an amp for $50, hard to go wrong there.

fix them up, rebuild crossovers and keep my fingers crossed...then (hopefully) onto bigger and better things (like that so gorgeous Poor Mans!)

thanks again

Well, understanding that the commercial Stradivari Homage is around 40 thousand.. "poor mans" is rather accurate. (..though frankly they are closer to the Elipse in design than the Stradavari.)

You can price the drivers out at Madisound, but I'd expect the total to be around 400 US.

Partsexpress has the crossover components from Jantzen Audio, expect a minimum of 200 total for it.

Then materials and labor for box construction.

The result even with some nice maple veneer should be less than a thousand US.

If you need something cheap that is still DIY then consider Zaph's BAMTM:
Zaph|Audio - Bargain Aluminum MTM

If money is really tight then consider a fullrange design based on this driver:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...Number=292-430
Godzilla has some pages devoted to it's predecessor as does Nelson Pass and Co..
http://www.zillaaudio.com/diy-speaker-building.htm
http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_cs_amps.pdf
(page 23)

[planet10]

Originally Posted by ScottG

If money is really tight then consider a fullrange design based on this driver:

Jury is still out on that new driver, but they are cheap, hopefully we'll see thm (or something else -- Wild Burro also has a cheap 8"). There are lots of choices for full-range drivers (i tend to favour smaller ones) and lots of proven designs. Hard to beat a good FR system for the money (and often even for a lot more money)

The Ellipsa was the 1st commercial multi-way that got my attention for a long time. But $20k leaves a lot of room for the DIYer.

dave

[MichaelPublic]

Had I the chance to do it over; I would try a well reviewed kit first, something 2 way from Parts Express perhaps? or a pair of Radio Shack minimus 7's and build a crossover from scratch.
Maybe
Wharfedale Diamond II or III from classifieds, with about 50 watts to drive them, maybe build a new crossover for them?
Of course if you have a shop and space to have a system in 3 or 4 rooms then go for it and please post pics of your creations.

[flaevor]

Originally Posted by ScottG

Most "kits" I'd stay away from.

Generally find a very well documented plan from some of the best designers.

I suppose I should have qualified my statement. When I said "kit" I meant a speaker that is already designed. It could be a design like the PMS or some other well documented design. I can't comment on the Parts Express kits but the kits from the German outlets are usually well thought out and include everything but cabinets, so when he said kit I assumed no cabinets included.