What Driver and Passive Radiator?

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A

ArthurSoares

Member
Joined 2003
Hello to all :)

I live in Brazil, but in this august I'll be living in US for Exchange program, and one of the things I want to buy is a gr8 subwoofer for my HT.

As I've read here u guys are big fans of TL Enclosures, what speakers do u often use for this boxes? I want to have Deep Low Bass response with high SPL.. What Drivers do u indicates to me? And as well a passive radiator in case I build a ported box. I want to use this box at home! .. Thank
 
K

kelticwizard

diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
Joined 2001
Passive Radiators generally are not used unless the port is too big for the box. If you want to tune a 0.5 Ft³ (14 L) box to 25 Hz, for example, you would use a Passive Radiator.

Passive Radiators cost money, and they worsen the transient response somewhat. But they do allow you to tune a small box very low.

Generally, if you can use a port of reasonable size, use it.
 
GM

GM

Member
Joined 2003
Too late, thylantyr. ;)

====

>Passive Radiators cost money, and they worsen the transient response somewhat. But they do allow you to tune a small box very low.
====
Yes, they do cost more than a tube, and if driven much below Fb then the notch at its Fs will ripple back up the BW so it's not a good plan IMO to use them if tuned above ~20Hz. Tuned below this point, their transient response is superior to a vent since there's much less out of BW response and no delay due to the need to 'pump up', so for sub duty they're ideal IMO if an IB or basshorn isn't an option.

Arthur,

There's many to choose from, so basically it boils down to the max cab size you can tolerate, whether you want to be able to do DD reference, and how much can you afford. Browse the Adire Audio and Stryke sites to get a sampling of the most popular ones. When I was still running subs, my preference was the ServoDrive Contrabass since it comes closest in performance to a basshorn, yet is reasonably compact.

GM
 
A

ArthurSoares

Member
Joined 2003
About the passive radiators I've already read something about it.. Okay. in Case I could use a port for lower fb I'd use it... Got the point!...

And about the Drivers... What u guys suggest me to buy for low frequencies bass.? I actually have 2 Subwoofers, one is in a BandPass (6th) order, and the other one is in a Ported box.. I'll post the T-S parm. and u tell me which one of them is better?

How much u think I will spend in a good driver?

Endurance EHSW12
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


4,0 (ohms ± 10%)
SPL: 88 (± 2dB/m/2,83v)
Fhz: 25 (Hz ± 15 %)
Potência máxima : 600 Wmax
Potência nominal : 300 Wrms
Qts : 0,28
Qms : 2,42
Qes : 0,32
Vas : 93 liters
X máx. : 8,0 mm
Re : 3,8 Ohms
Sd : 530 sq.cm
12" D : 311,0 mm
H : 146,0 mm

Endurance 2k 12D/2
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


2,0 + 2,0 (ohms ± 10%)
SPL 88 (± 2dB/m/2,83v)
Fhz: 27 (Hz ± 15 %)
Potência máxima: 1000 Wmax
Potência nominal: 500 Wrms
Qts: 0,42
Qms: 6,30
Qes: 0,45
Vas: 70 liters
X máx.: 8,0 mm
Re: 1,9 + 1,9 Ohms
Sd: 523 sq.cm
12" D: 321,0 mm
H: 145,0 mm


Thanks :)
 
A

ArthurSoares

Member
Joined 2003
Another drive

Sorry guys these Drivers may be unknown for almost all of you, but they are quite popular here.. I'll post here more two..

Selenium BASS 12SW2A DVC(quite cheap)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

2 + 2 Ohms
SPL 91(1w@1m)
Fs 21
Re 1.7
Qms 12
Qes 0.33
Qts 0.32
Vas 220
Sd 520 cm3
Xmax 5.2mm
200Wrms


Selenium Extreme 12SW5 (Excellent driver IMHO)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

2 + 2 Ohms
SPL 89 (1w@1m)
Fs 31
Re 3.50
Qms 5.20
Qes 0.47
Qts 0.43
Vas 61
Sd 520cm3
Xmax 7.2mm


Another time.. Thanks :)
 
A

ArthurSoares

Member
Joined 2003
GM said:
Too late, thylantyr. ;)

====

>Passive Radiators cost money, and they worsen the transient response somewhat. But they do allow you to tune a small box very low.
====
Yes, they do cost more than a tube, and if driven much below Fb then the notch at its Fs will ripple back up the BW so it's not a good plan IMO to use them if tuned above ~20Hz. Tuned below this point, their transient response is superior to a vent since there's much less out of BW response and no delay due to the need to 'pump up', so for sub duty they're ideal IMO if an IB or basshorn isn't an option.

Arthur,

There's many to choose from, so basically it boils down to the max cab size you can tolerate, whether you want to be able to do DD reference, and how much can you afford. Browse the Adire Audio and Stryke sites to get a sampling of the most popular ones. When I was still running subs, my preference was the ServoDrive Contrabass since it comes closest in performance to a basshorn, yet is reasonably compact.

GM
Click to expand...

OMFG I'm totally amazed by these ServoDrive loudspeakers .. Man Its totally awesome.. 110dB@16Hz .. LOL that's Evil! :devily:

But how much one of these cost?


:devily:
 
A

ArthurSoares

Member
Joined 2003
Re: Re: ADire Audio?

Superassbass said:



Here's a good place to start:

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/BrahmaOwnersGuide.pdf

Pmax= 4800W...It's really for people who have too much money :)
Click to expand...

:) thank you for the sight... That driver reaches high spl at low frequencies from what I could figure the price that the AdireAudio offers, is it updated? Would it be a reasonable driver for an HT sistem? The manual suggested building a 5ft^3 ported box and fB in 20hz for Hometheater, it showed flat response.. bottom down to 20hz. P-r-e-t-t-y Amazing..
 
GM

GM

Member
Joined 2003
>Its totally awesome.. 110dB@16Hz .. LOL that's Evil! But how much one of these cost?

====

Actually, it's officially 114dB/16Hz, but that's its continuous rating. Peak is ~121dB/16hz, and I was using two. :) They were $3k some years ago. I was fortunate and got mine as basic kits and used lower resistance surplus motors for considerably less, but they're not offered anymore. I have an old frame house with very early drywall, and organ music, special effects CDs literally tore my house apart. I'm still doing repairs. :( When I needed some $$ I sold them.

====

>That driver reaches high spl at low frequencies from what I could figure the price that the AdireAudio offers, is it updated? Would it be a reasonable driver for an HT sistem? The manual suggested building a 5ft^3 ported box and fB in 20hz for Hometheater, it showed flat response.. bottom down to 20hz. P-r-e-t-t-y Amazing..



>Dunno yet, i'll be probably buying some P.A. depending on the Driver will change the model I Want some headroom!

====

Like I suggested, browse the Adire and Stryke sites for sub drivers. If the prices are acceptable and you're willing to install a dedicated outlet for a 5kW amp, then the 15" Brahma in ~5.83ft^3 net/16Hz cab should do HT, organs, and most special effects CDs at damaging levels. On paper, it will take two Tempests in ~26ft^3 net to match it.

Just looking at the specs of your locally available drivers, the higher Q ones should work, but due to their relatively low Xmax will require four of them to get serious SPLs down low.

GM
 
A

ArthurSoares

Member
Joined 2003
GM said:
>Its totally awesome.. 110dB@16Hz .. LOL that's Evil! But how much one of these cost?

====

Actually, it's officially 114dB/16Hz, but that's its continuous rating. Peak is ~121dB/16hz, and I was using two. :) They were $3k some years ago. I was fortunate and got mine as basic kits and used lower resistance surplus motors for considerably less, but they're not offered anymore. I have an old frame house with very early drywall, and organ music, special effects CDs literally tore my house apart. I'm still doing repairs. :( When I needed some $$ I sold them.

====

>That driver reaches high spl at low frequencies from what I could figure the price that the AdireAudio offers, is it updated? Would it be a reasonable driver for an HT sistem? The manual suggested building a 5ft^3 ported box and fB in 20hz for Hometheater, it showed flat response.. bottom down to 20hz. P-r-e-t-t-y Amazing..



>Dunno yet, i'll be probably buying some P.A. depending on the Driver will change the model I Want some headroom!

====

Like I suggested, browse the Adire and Stryke sites for sub drivers. If the prices are acceptable and you're willing to install a dedicated outlet for a 5kW amp, then the 15" Brahma in ~5.83ft^3 net/16Hz cab should do HT, organs, and most special effects CDs at damaging levels. On paper, it will take two Tempests in ~26ft^3 net to match it.

Just looking at the specs of your locally available drivers, the higher Q ones should work, but due to their relatively low Xmax will require four of them to get serious SPLs down low.

GM
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info and reply, these are only early plans yet .. I'm not even in the US now.. I think that I'll start searching what Driver to buy in December/November.. or hopefully sooner :D
I Might be livin in Louisiana in US..
 
E

Eul

Member
Joined 2003
As far as I heard the Adrire Shiva whit a passive radiator acts beastly! High SPL’s at low frequency’s ( <25Hz). This is more than enough for a H(ome)T installation. I recently spoke someone who build a Adire Shiva in a closed box of about 80L and he told me that when he tested it the first time he had the volume so high that when he started his sweep he had the feeling he got blown away. Seriously now, it was so loud he couldn’t have more SPL because his ears got near the pain border.

I’ve heard a lot of good stories about it and in Holland it is getting to be a legend in the DIY world. One thing for sure, it is on my “things to do list”!
 
GM

GM

Member
Joined 2003
I'm very familiar the Shiva, and while a great bang/buck, in 80L sealed can't compete with the currently available sub drivers. I was part of the basslist group that got a list special on the original version, getting two plus two of the then just released 15" PRs. I installed all this into a Contrabass style design with the same Vb, and while it wasn't as powerful as the 'real deal', it was 'close enough' and at a fraction of the price. The tradeoff being a larger amp was required and a bit higher distortion when pushed, though still quite acceptable for all but the most critical listener.

Due to the bipole layout, vibration wasn't an issue of course, and like the Contrabass, construction was super simple, with minimal bracing using 3/4" 13ply Baltic Birch.

GM
 
K

kelticwizard

diyAudio Moderator Emeritus
Joined 2001
Eul said:
As far as I heard the Adrire Shiva whit a passive radiator acts beastly! High SPL’s at low frequency’s ( <25Hz). This is more than enough for a H(ome)T installation... Seriously now, it was so loud he couldn’t have more SPL because his ears got near the pain border.

I’ve heard a lot of good stories about it and in Holland it is getting to be a legend in the DIY world. One thing for sure, it is on my “things to do list”!
Click to expand...

You should know that there is another driver similar to the Shiva named the Eminence Lab 12. The Thiele-Small specs are very similar, with the following differences:

Instead of two 8 ohm voice coils, the Lab 12 has one 6 ohm voice coil. The Lab 12's Bl product is 50 % higher, due to the Lab 12's larger magnet. Fs of the two is about the same, but Vas of the Lab 12 is 20% less. The "voice coil overhang" is the same. Adire measures the Shiva's excursion another way, but the excursion is identical for both.

The Lab 12 is a bigger, heftier speaker with an aluminum cast frame. The Shiva is a stamped frame. In truth, however, I am by no means "sold" on the idea that a cast frame is better, even though you normally have to pay extra for them.

The Lab 12's price is slightly higher-about 40% more. However, Eminence has a distributor in Holland:
http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/support/inquiry/eur.htm

It should be noted that the Eminence dealer in England, BK electronics, sells all Eminence products at the same price we pay in the USA. Very possibly, the Eminence dealer in the Netherlands sells the same price. So you should not have the large differential between the American and the European price which exists so often.

Here is the link for BK Electronics anyway-they ship to other countries:
www.bkelec.com

Here is the spec sheet for the Lab12:
http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/products02/lab12/lab12.htm

I am not saying necessarily to buy the Lab 12 instead of the Shiva. I am just letting you know there is a similar driver out there, at a fairly similar price, that might be more available to you and even cheaper if you must ship the Shiva from the USA.

By the way, I don't know anyone who has used the Lab 12. Maybe they are on other boards.

PS: By the way, BK Electronics was going to produce their own clone of the Shiva for £65, ($105, €92), but abandoned their plans because they figured that with the Lab 12, they would have 2 speakers similar to the Shiva. They told me this in an Email.
 
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