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Old 11th January 2002, 02:10 AM   #1
ucla88 is offline ucla88  Tahiti
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Default speaker measurement software

I've been toying with the idea of breaking down and buying some measurement hardware/software. I really can't afford over a grand. even 500-1000 will mean some moonlighting, so to speak.

I'm leaning towards a clio or preferably clio lite setup.

1. does anybody have any opinions on clio and similar products?

2. any opinions on the mics and preamp that come with this, the MMII, or any other mic/preamp combo's?

I've read what vance dickason and dr d'appolito say in their books, but would like some more input before dropping this kind of money. (you can buy alot of drivers with $700, on the other hand, you probably get more than $700 worth of insight from clio or similar)

i tried some searches, but didn't really get the info I was looking for.

btw, anybody want to split the cost? i suppose this only works if you live somewhere in northern cal/bay area.
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Old 11th January 2002, 02:31 AM   #2
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One can't 'share' Clio/Clio-Win. The hardware card has a serial number and that's locked to the software. One won't work without the other.

It's a good program, slightly user hostile but very accurate. Buy it from AudioXpress and you'll get the Mighty Mike included.

If you want to get you're feet wet for less money $149 try ETF 5 from http://www.etfacoustic.com
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Old 11th January 2002, 05:08 AM   #3
ucla88 is offline ucla88  Tahiti
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thanks thomas

i don't mean copying the software. i've got enough pc's around here to put together a dedicated pc for testing only. this dedicated pc could be shared, as if by a local club or some such. i don't think this violates software copywrite as it's only used on one machine. of course, this means lugging around a dedicated pc, hence the geography restriction to northern california.

i looked at etf, and if it had a decent mic and preamp which didn't cost an extra $250 (-honestly, i don't think plugging it into a RS spl meter counts as accurate), i'd get this, because it is so reasonably priced.

unfortunately, i sold my scopes and other test equip a decade ago when i changed careers, so by the time i put together enough stuff to do TS and other measurements, i'll end up spending what i would have on clio, i suspect.

Now if someone has a decent mike/preamp they want to sell, preferably calibrated, let me know.

p.s. i got the impression from old colony's web site, that the version of clio lite with the mic was not MM but audiomatica's own?
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Old 11th January 2002, 05:15 AM   #4
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some software EULA's (end user licence agreement) state that this practice is illegal .....
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Old 11th January 2002, 05:34 AM   #5
ucla88 is offline ucla88  Tahiti
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Quote:
Originally posted by AudioFreak
some software EULA's (end user licence agreement) state that this practice is illegal .....
perhaps this is so...i'm downloading the clio manual now. i shall peruse it. however, most don't-it's essentially unenforceable and simply because it is printed in the software license agreement doesn't necessarily make it legal.

under a ridiculosly strict interpretation of this, you couldn't sell it to someone secondhand. afterall, what's to stop me from selling it to someone after six months then buying it back. gee wiz, if someone comes over to my garage and is testing some drivers, is this a violation of the license agreement because a different person is using the machine?

when i buy a rake from home depot, am i violating the manufacters rights' if i lend it to my neighbor, even if he would have bought it otherwise and now the manufacturer has lost a sale?

i don't agree with rampant copying of software, but this kind of agreement is nonsense.

anyway, this is an argument for some other forum-or the courts.
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Old 11th January 2002, 05:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by ucla88


perhaps this is so...i'm downloading the clio manual now. i shall peruse it. however, most don't-it's essentially unenforceable and simply because it is printed in the software license agreement doesn't necessarily make it legal.

under a ridiculosly strict interpretation of this, you couldn't sell it to someone secondhand. afterall, what's to stop me from selling it to someone after six months then buying it back. gee wiz, if someone comes over to my garage and is testing some drivers, is this a violation of the license agreement because a different person is using the machine?

when i buy a rake from home depot, am i violating the manufacters rights' if i lend it to my neighbor, even if he would have bought it otherwise and now the manufacturer has lost a sale?

i don't agree with rampant copying of software, but this kind of agreement is nonsense.

anyway, this is an argument for some other forum-or the courts.

Yep certain licences state that it is illegal for anyone other than the person who originally purchased the licence to use the software.....

I know this is stupid but thats the way things are and a very small number of people do get done for breaking these stupid rules.

Most say you can resell it for less than its original value so long as you retain no part of it after resale.
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Old 11th January 2002, 06:16 AM   #7
CHRIS8 is offline CHRIS8  United States
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As for the not beng able to resell a license you legally own? I would question if they can legally place this restriction. You can likely find out by going to :

http://www.allexperts.com/getExpert.asp?Category=1482

I have used this site before, and the experts will generally answer any question for you. I would recommend copy and pasting the entire paragraph that you beleive restricts you from selling your software/hardware setup in the message you send to the laywer.

If you ask and get an answer, please share with the rest of us.

As for software.....have you tried Speaker Workshop yet?
http://www.audua.com

It is not well documented online, not even features are covered sufficiently. Download it(hey, it's free) and try it out. It is as powerful as one would expect a commercial CAD package to be.

The only thing this software costs is $20 for parts to build a mic preamp and $15 for parts to build a jig for T/S paramaters. You can also buy a Panasonic mic cartridge that comes with a calibration file, and make your own very accurate measuerment mic. I think the cartridge with cal file is around $30. Why waste money on a mitey mic?

Contact Kim Girardin at kmgrdn@luminet.net about purchasing a capsule with a cal file.

-Chris
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Old 11th January 2002, 06:39 AM   #8
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ucla88

The little calibrated mic and mic pre-amp from ETF is the cheapest true calibrated mic available anywhere. It's calibrated to a B&K 4133

A calibrated B&K 4133 will set you back about $3000+


Quote:
Why waste money on a mitey mic?
It's included in the price of Clio-Win lite if purchased from AudioXpress. It uses the same Panasonic electret cartridge you describe.

Wallin jig info

http://www.gti.net/wallin/audio/preamp2/preamp2.html
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Old 11th January 2002, 06:42 AM   #9
ucla88 is offline ucla88  Tahiti
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You can also buy a Panasonic mic cartridge that comes with a calibration file, and make your own very accurate measuerment mic. I think the cartridge with cal file is around $30. Why waste money on a mitey mic?

thanks chris
now that might be worth pursuing. a mic with a cal file for $30 bucks. building a preamp is really no big deal, in fact there's a post somewhere here to a good mic preamp, so that would work well. I have already downloaded speakerworkshop, and that will work well for the TS and some other measurements. add on 150 for etf and that might be a fairly cheap way to go.

as far as the whole software license thing goes--on a practical level, i doubt any manufacturer would come after you for starting a hobbyist club and having a small group of people use a particular hardware/software package, irrespective of the license. first, it would be enormously bad press ("large multinational conglomerate goes after hobbyists trying to learn speaker design"). second, companies are leery of interfering with end user property rights because it brings down the market value of their products. after all, are you going to pay more or less for a product which has no resale value because the manufacturer puts conditions on its resale?


thomas, oops you posted while i was writing.
thanks again-i was wondering how good the calibrated mic from etf was-sounds pretty good.
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Old 11th January 2002, 06:43 AM   #10
Dave is offline Dave  New Zealand
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Hi There,

I used speaker workshop for a project and the results were very good. I used a Panasonic Mic for measurements and CALSOD to design the crossover.
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