When I've shopped for speakers, mostly low end, the salesmen have always pitched certain speakers as "good for rock". Often, this makes me cringe, because they are talking about a speaker with a weak midrange tuned for higher bass output.
So, what does make a great rock speaker? Tight bass? Does a dip in the midrange actually help (are the salesmen right)? Dynamic response above all else?
So, what does make a great rock speaker? Tight bass? Does a dip in the midrange actually help (are the salesmen right)? Dynamic response above all else?
Any pair of studio monitors and just about any price point. They are used by the biggest stars in the very best recording studios and also the latest indie bands in the cheapest basement studios.
If you are looking for the "standard" get an old pair of Yamaha NS-10 monitors. They won't sound beautiful, but almost every mix on the planet is run through a pair to test if it will sound good on most consumer equipment. They are considered to be stronger in the mids than the ends.
ensen.
If you are looking for the "standard" get an old pair of Yamaha NS-10 monitors. They won't sound beautiful, but almost every mix on the planet is run through a pair to test if it will sound good on most consumer equipment. They are considered to be stronger in the mids than the ends.
ensen.Nahhhh .. this is it..
http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/classic_detail.asp?product=G12T-75
or maybe this one?
http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/classic_detail.asp?product=Vintage 30
Check'm all out
http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/tone/index.html
,
Thijs
http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/classic_detail.asp?product=G12T-75
or maybe this one?
http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/classic_detail.asp?product=Vintage 30
Check'm all out
http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/tone/index.html
,Thijs
Banned
Joined 2002
if i were to go buy speakers. I would choose www.paradigm.com all there line of speakers are great for sound rock full soft rock jazz any thing. I love there line of speakers. Studio's are really nice..
From my experience thus far, a great rock speaker has to get high SPL, but doesn't 'bloom' in the mids at those high levels. At the same time at a lower wattage the bass doesn't disappear. I'd suspect a good starting point would be a speaker with an F3 at 40Hz or lower without broad changes across the mid to upper spectrum (tending to the lower). That said, I'd say the 'consumer' version has loud bass, lackluster mids and sharp highs. I think most consumer shoppers would find a strong midrange to be a bit forward, but after getting out of the Circuit City mindset, I find a good mid presence to be required, but an overly forward (forward := in my mind a 'peaky' mid) is a distraction.
The last consumer speaker I found to be toward my liking was a Paradigm, as Jason L mentioned. I tried a handful of mid-low-fi speakers and the Paradigms seemed to be a good value point for a guy like me. Many DIY's that have a good flat response to the 30's, I suppose, would be even better. I can only attest to the kits I've built, though. There could be a vast difference for others. I can't imagine buying a consumer speaker ever again, though.
Hope this reference point has a positive effect with respect to your question. . .
Sandy.
The last consumer speaker I found to be toward my liking was a Paradigm, as Jason L mentioned. I tried a handful of mid-low-fi speakers and the Paradigms seemed to be a good value point for a guy like me. Many DIY's that have a good flat response to the 30's, I suppose, would be even better. I can only attest to the kits I've built, though. There could be a vast difference for others. I can't imagine buying a consumer speaker ever again, though.
Hope this reference point has a positive effect with respect to your question. . .
Sandy.
Banned
Joined 2002
Honestly, if a buddy asks what to audition, I suggest Paradigms. Being an engineer among many art friends, they tend to be skeptical of DIY solutions. Given the choice of a good DIY, I'd do it over the Paradigm, but, man-hours don't count in that particular value equation. I like DIY for myself and don't want to troubleshoot friend's systems all the time.
I've heard many criticisms of the Paradigms, but I still enjoy their value on a price vs. sound curve. Still, I enjoy the options DIY offers over consumer compromise.
Nice Avitar, BTW, Jason.
Take care, all. Its bedtime!
Sandy.
I've heard many criticisms of the Paradigms, but I still enjoy their value on a price vs. sound curve. Still, I enjoy the options DIY offers over consumer compromise.
Nice Avitar, BTW, Jason.
Take care, all. Its bedtime!
Sandy.
Banned
Joined 2002
leadbelly said:
The best would probably be the Klipsch Cornwall or even better the Khorn. Play high SPL, without strain, low distortion, incredible dynamics, get to about 40Hz (enough for E on electric bass) and they groove.
Also, there are a ton of similar JBL and Altec drivers and systems that make excellent rock speaks.
Thanks Sandy. That was what I was after, except I was not inquiring about how to shop for commercial speakers, but DIY designs to build. I think rock is a bit trivialized in speaker design, but I think that there must be a speaker design best suited to it, be it TMW, MTM, sealed, ported, tweeter type X, woofer type Y, etc.
>That was what I was after, except I was not inquiring about how to shop for commercial speakers, but DIY designs to build. I think rock is a bit trivialized in speaker design, but I think that there must be a speaker design best suited to it, be it TMW, MTM, sealed, ported, tweeter type X, woofer type Y, etc.
====
Ideally, horn loaded from 30-20kHz. Realistically, an Altec A7 clone with sub or vented dual HE 15" + 300-500hz cinema series compression horn (TMM or MTM) EQ'd for flattest response will get the job done for most folks.
GM
====
Ideally, horn loaded from 30-20kHz. Realistically, an Altec A7 clone with sub or vented dual HE 15" + 300-500hz cinema series compression horn (TMM or MTM) EQ'd for flattest response will get the job done for most folks.
GM
"But it goes to 11..." - Spinal Tap
Strange, the most important sounds in a performance are human voices with their base frequencies right smack in the mids. Yet, we are throttling them back. Go figure.
I think everyone has seen a graphic equalizer on the "smiley face" setting at one time or another. (The bass is boosted +12dB, mid-bass +6dB, mids at level, and highs set to +6/+12.) Maybe even done it ourselves when we were young (heh!).
That is why so many consumer speakers are set with the mids subdued - so that when we set our hi-fi to "flat" settings, we get to hear our favourite equalization.
This is also why they invented the Yamaha NS-10. The unofficial lore among engineers is that when the band members are in the room with you, boost the bass and highs and make it show on the board, thus pre-empting the inevitable request to boost them. Then, playback on the NS-10s would guarantee that the mix would sound "normal" to the visiting musicians.
Lead: If you want a great rock speaker, get some great recordings (like anything re-mastered by Jimmy Page) and go listening to everything. I think you'll find that even the cheap studio monitors will surprise you. The important spec on these is that they are all trying to get a flat response (except maybe the NS-10). If you DIY a speaker with the same flat response, you will find the same good results.
ensen.
BTW: And while I generally recommend studio monitors for their price/performance, I will admit that Paradigms are pretty good. They are well priced (at least in Vancouver) and they don't have weak mids. I just find that in most cases "pro" gear is not that expensive and comes with phase alignment that seems crisper than consumer equipment.
leadbelly said:
Sandy H. said:
Timn8ter said:
Strange, the most important sounds in a performance are human voices with their base frequencies right smack in the mids. Yet, we are throttling them back. Go figure.
I think everyone has seen a graphic equalizer on the "smiley face" setting at one time or another. (The bass is boosted +12dB, mid-bass +6dB, mids at level, and highs set to +6/+12.) Maybe even done it ourselves when we were young (heh!).
That is why so many consumer speakers are set with the mids subdued - so that when we set our hi-fi to "flat" settings, we get to hear our favourite equalization.
This is also why they invented the Yamaha NS-10. The unofficial lore among engineers is that when the band members are in the room with you, boost the bass and highs and make it show on the board, thus pre-empting the inevitable request to boost them. Then, playback on the NS-10s would guarantee that the mix would sound "normal" to the visiting musicians.
Lead: If you want a great rock speaker, get some great recordings (like anything re-mastered by Jimmy Page) and go listening to everything. I think you'll find that even the cheap studio monitors will surprise you. The important spec on these is that they are all trying to get a flat response (except maybe the NS-10). If you DIY a speaker with the same flat response, you will find the same good results.
ensen.BTW: And while I generally recommend studio monitors for their price/performance, I will admit that Paradigms are pretty good. They are well priced (at least in Vancouver) and they don't have weak mids. I just find that in most cases "pro" gear is not that expensive and comes with phase alignment that seems crisper than consumer equipment.
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