I was cruising for Seas 3 way project & found this all aluminum setup by Udo Wohlgemuth. I would like to hear any opinion from you guys who had built it. The part numbers are German, but I think it uses the 27TBF/G + L15RLY/P + L26RFX/P. The vented box looks quite unusual 
linky: Lautsprecherbau - MS 2 MK 2006/ MS 5 MK 2006
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
linky: Lautsprecherbau - MS 2 MK 2006/ MS 5 MK 2006
Top Notch Drivers
Haven't built it, but they should make an excellent speaker with the right crossover design, which i can't comment on.
Take a look at this design for reference/comparison:
Zaph|Audio
Haven't built it, but they should make an excellent speaker with the right crossover design, which i can't comment on.
Take a look at this design for reference/comparison:
Zaph|Audio
Thanks, John's Seas 2 way looks like a winner. Tony also has a little cutie, the HATT MkIII or the higher priced Excel version - HATT SE MkII.
Humble Homemade Hifi
Humble Homemade Hifi
Humble Homemade Hifi
Humble Homemade Hifi
The second one, if you can afford the woofers, would be a great way to go. The DXT tweeter has become very popular very rapidly and designs are popping up all over the place.
Here's one I intend to build, and at a great price point:
The Seas ER18DXT ported two way
Note - these are 2-way ported designs - I'd recommend, rather than a 3-way, you consider using smaller, sealed cabinets and going with subs - cheaper, simpler.
Here's one I intend to build, and at a great price point:
The Seas ER18DXT ported two way
Note - these are 2-way ported designs - I'd recommend, rather than a 3-way, you consider using smaller, sealed cabinets and going with subs - cheaper, simpler.
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Thanks for the recommendation.
When I was considering 2 ways the choice was either the Seas combo like the L18 or the SR71 vs the SS/Vifa combo ZD5. I've also heard good things about the ER18DXT, some says its better than the SR71 base on the tweeter alone.
Personally I prefer the more relaxed & slightly cleaner tonality of Seas drivers to Scan Speak/Vifas, my opinion of course.
When I was considering 2 ways the choice was either the Seas combo like the L18 or the SR71 vs the SS/Vifa combo ZD5. I've also heard good things about the ER18DXT, some says its better than the SR71 base on the tweeter alone.
Personally I prefer the more relaxed & slightly cleaner tonality of Seas drivers to Scan Speak/Vifas, my opinion of course.
leandro girard, If you favor the sound(tone) from light metal cone drivers....
SB_Acoustics has a newer family of medium cost aluminum cone drivers which get positive reviews. Worth the effort to study the published driver data, and read a few diy build threads. The 6.5" midbass has a ribbed aluminum cone which pushes break-up to about 4kHz, and this allows a dynamic and wide vocal range 6.5" midbass with a 1800-2000Hz crossover.
Popular "SPL balanced" combination = 1" dome + sealed 6.5" midbass + two ported 8" woofers in parallel on the front baffle or side-side mounted.
SB_Acoustics Aluminum cones
1" dome SB26ADC-C000-4
5" midrange SB15NAC30-4
6.5" midbass SB17NAC35-4
8" woofer SB23NACS45-8
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Popular "SPL balanced" combination = 1" dome + sealed 6.5" midbass + sealed 12" woofer
SB34NRX75-6 paper cone 12" woofer with T/S ideal for sealed alignment
3.5cuft sealed produces -F3 ~37Hz with exceptional transients
Side panel mounting allows a narrow front baffle.
SB_Acoustics has a newer family of medium cost aluminum cone drivers which get positive reviews. Worth the effort to study the published driver data, and read a few diy build threads. The 6.5" midbass has a ribbed aluminum cone which pushes break-up to about 4kHz, and this allows a dynamic and wide vocal range 6.5" midbass with a 1800-2000Hz crossover.
Popular "SPL balanced" combination = 1" dome + sealed 6.5" midbass + two ported 8" woofers in parallel on the front baffle or side-side mounted.
SB_Acoustics Aluminum cones
1" dome SB26ADC-C000-4
5" midrange SB15NAC30-4
6.5" midbass SB17NAC35-4
8" woofer SB23NACS45-8
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Popular "SPL balanced" combination = 1" dome + sealed 6.5" midbass + sealed 12" woofer
SB34NRX75-6 paper cone 12" woofer with T/S ideal for sealed alignment
3.5cuft sealed produces -F3 ~37Hz with exceptional transients
Side panel mounting allows a narrow front baffle.
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I designed and built a L26/L15/27TBFCG combo. I love the detail of hard / metal drivers. The L15 H3 breakup though hits around 2700Hz and now is inferior to the SB drivers LineSource listed above.
Infact I am in the middle of evaluating an SB34/SB17NBAC/SB26ADC combo exactly as per LineSource above.
I'm happy to share the L26 design with you though.... I didn'tlike the sound of the 27tbfcg pushed below 2300hz and didn't like the L15 playing that high (ideally it would be best 1700Hz), so I compromised with a deliberate "BBC dip". Even with the dip these speakers outshine other paper driver speakers I've listened to for clarity.
PS: I swapped out the 27tbfc/g for the 27tdfc.
Infact I am in the middle of evaluating an SB34/SB17NBAC/SB26ADC combo exactly as per LineSource above.
I'm happy to share the L26 design with you though.... I didn'tlike the sound of the 27tbfcg pushed below 2300hz and didn't like the L15 playing that high (ideally it would be best 1700Hz), so I compromised with a deliberate "BBC dip". Even with the dip these speakers outshine other paper driver speakers I've listened to for clarity.
PS: I swapped out the 27tbfc/g for the 27tdfc.
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Thanks Dave Bullet and Line source for your replies! Im planning this project for a professional studio so i need the speed and precision of metal cones, its not intented to be a pleasent listening experience rather than a critical precise type of listening. Im 90% decided on constructing a seas odin mk3 with XO modifications that been proposed by jimangie1973 on the "clarity of seas thor" thread, I think that will do the job. Ill check projects with the new sb cones, maybe ill find interesting projects. thanks very much for your times!
Leandro
Leandro
You will find some good information on the SB_Acoustics aluminum cone drivers by studing
Troels Gravesen SBAcoustics 61-NAC
SBAcoustics-61-NAC
==========
Take note that Troels uses a 2kHz LR4 crossover circuit on the aluminum cone SB17NAC35 midbass to attenuate the cone breakup effects.
There is some debate on using a stepped baffle for driver time alignment.
No debate on edge diffraction distortion control. If you have a woodshop which can cut deep edge bevels, or machine large radius quarter-round edges, they should be part of your design.
A 3-way design would use a smaller sealed volume for the midbass.
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The problem with Zaph's L18 design is he crossed the L18 too high. As you can see in the attached HD sweep - 3rd order is crazy high above 2KHz (7KHz primary breakup / 3). Even Zaph admitted after the design was published he should have crossed lower - maybe as low as 1500Hz (or even lower) to a waveguided tweeter IMHO. Or make this the woofer in a smaller 3 way design.
Image from HifiCompass.com
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Thank Dave, I was not aware of it at all. I did the speakers somewhere in 2009 and it put me off totaly from metal speakers. They had fantastic air btw. +15dB is a lot. MAybe that was the reason, I do not know now.
I have the L15 which has the same distortion profile but higher in frequency. Crossing the L15 over at 2300 is what I am doing now, but only tolerable. The problem is I don't like the seas tweeter crossed over any lower. Maybe the tweeter just needed more padding, but the tweeter always seemed shouty and sounded strained at volume (the L26 and L15 can take a lot). In anycase the L15 and 27txFC range dont' seem to work for me either. On brilliant recordings - they are sublime. But I need my speakers to work well on everything I can throw at them ideally.
That's why the SB line - especially SB17BNAC or SB15NBAC are so appealing. The ribbed cone profile seems to lower and spread the typical breakup peak so the resulting odd order HD is much lower in amplitude. I personally think with the right XO as LineSource has posted (4th order electrical works better here since the HD is broad rather than a spike which would be best treated by bottomless notch filters as per L15/L18), then the NBAC line offers excellent price / performance. I reckon potentially better than the Satori line! I wish I had both to compare.
IMHO, the problem with the Seas metal midwoofers is not only the 3rd HD (although this is the worst) but all the other orders are excited in correlation to the main resonance peak. 5th order is bad too, although it's lower in level compared to 3rd, but it's a higher order one and that's the reason it's maybe audible in between 1-2 kHz. All the orders of harmonic distortions can be a sign of very bad intermodulation distortion too.
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I've never had an issue with Seas metal cone units. 
Within that context, if there's audible HD amplification in the operating BW, it's the result of misusing the driver, either with too high a crossover frequency and / or insufficient suppression of the main cone mode, which arguably ammounts to the same thing. To be sure, they usually don't have the lowest distortion motor designs around, but in fairness most are well-engineered / implemented.
Within that context, if there's audible HD amplification in the operating BW, it's the result of misusing the driver, either with too high a crossover frequency and / or insufficient suppression of the main cone mode, which arguably ammounts to the same thing. To be sure, they usually don't have the lowest distortion motor designs around, but in fairness most are well-engineered / implemented.
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BW = bandwidth. I don't think all that many use it as abbreviation for Butterworth in audio unless filter typologies are under discussion, and then a numeric value is usually added so it has some meaning, e.g. BW2, BW3 &c.
Pass, without context. In many cases, manufacturers internally prefer 'F0' as an abbreviation for resonant frequency.
Pass, without context. In many cases, manufacturers internally prefer 'F0' as an abbreviation for resonant frequency.
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