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-   -   "Angling rings"... worth the effort? (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/18230-angling-rings-worth-effort.html)

eRiCdWoNg 26th July 2003 09:51 PM

"Angleing rings"... worth the effort?
 
OK I know this is not the car audio forum, but I'm using various DIY components in my car setup and felt this would be the best place to ask since most car forums are full of morons. I use a pair of 6.5" Peerless midbass drivers in my 98 Corvette. I have MBquart .75" dome tweeters. They are crossoved over using a MBQuart passiveX over at approx 3.5khz or so with the bottom end electronically crossoed over at 90 with a Linkwitz/Riley alignment.

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ewong61/DSCF0005.JPG is a picture of the setup. But these speakers are facing right at one another so I'm probbly 35 to 45 degress off axis the passenger and at least 55-65 degrees off axis for driver speaker. Infact its even worse cause the center console in the car is very high, so it is literally like 2 pockets of sound. The matter is even more complicated when I listen with the door skins on. When I put the door skins/grilles on the sound seems to collapse and it sounds like crap. I attribute this to the 1" or so of space between the door skin/grille and the driver itself. I measured the output on my real time analyzer and the output is definately much smoother and less peaky and much more open sounding with the door skins off then on.

Also, it is painfully obvious that I'm not sitting in the direct line of the speaker's radiation pattern. If I do pull forward/sit back comparisions it is very obvious that alot of the sound is being "lost.

My plan is to make some angled mounts so I can more face the tweeters towards me as well as the midrange/midbass driver. Now this wont be anything dramatic, but I plan to use a .5 or .75" MDF sheet and very slightly angle cut it so not only would it push the speaker out closer away from the door itself, but also angle it slightly. Is this worth the effort?

eRiCdWoNg 27th July 2003 02:29 AM

Didnt mean to insult anybody here... I didnt notice there was a car audio forum... rather places like rec.audio.car....

Hybrid fourdoor 27th July 2003 08:47 AM

All bow down to the LS1.....old school technology...but damn it holds its own to the best.

A $20K 97 Corvette, plus a $5K supercharger is probably all the car I would ever need :devilr:

BabaBooey 27th July 2003 10:25 AM

I did just that in my old Civic a few years ago. Helped raise the soundstage quite a bit and the MDF baffle eliminated a few resonances in the door. Angled the driver side speaker a bit higher than the passanger as well as used time allignment so as to cater to my needs. Screw the passengers. Aside from going with kickpanels, I think this would be your best option.

May I ask why you have the Peerless drivers highpassed at 90hz? Should be capable of going much lower, drawing soundstage to front of vehicle and lessening localization of subwoofer...

eRiCdWoNg 27th July 2003 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hybrid fourdoor
All bow down to the LS1.....old school technology...but damn it holds its own to the best.

A $20K 97 Corvette, plus a $5K supercharger is probably all the car I would ever need :devilr:

I used to drive a 97 maxima i had modded up. however it kept blowing transmissions and I spent so much money on it. I said screw it, got ridda it and bought the Corvette. So far its bone stock and honestly I really have no intention of modding it. All that power and speed just gets you into accidents and tickets and trouble. I'd rather spend the $ on audio equipment.


Quote:

Originally posted by BabaBooey
I did just that in my old Civic a few years ago. Helped raise the soundstage quite a bit and the MDF baffle eliminated a few resonances in the door. Angled the driver side speaker a bit higher than the passanger as well as used time allignment so as to cater to my needs. Screw the passengers. Aside from going with kickpanels, I think this would be your best option.

May I ask why you have the Peerless drivers highpassed at 90hz? Should be capable of going much lower, drawing soundstage to front of vehicle and lessening localization of subwoofer...

Very interesting indeed. I'll probbly start working on that today since I'm finally off and have some free time. Question though- whats the best way to make such a gradual cut on a sheet of MDF like that?

I have the peerless crossed over at 90 hz cause theres somethin in my door that rattles and I play alot of club/techno music and the bass content usually has enough power to overload the drivers when played very loud. I run about 125x2 to the front speakers. I am having some problems integrating my sub to the front speakers. It seems around x over frequency, theres cancellation and the woofer seems to be 90 degrees out of phase since reversing the subwoofer phase does nothing. I need either a time delay for the sub or a phase shifter.

Im starting this thread about my sub issue over in car audio, if somebody could add some input.

:cool:

Brett D. 27th July 2003 07:31 PM

Eric,

Geez man clean your floormats!


Brett D. AKA LS1-Corvette00 :)


The guys on the corvetteforum would stone ya! :)

PS... Nice work!

BabaBooey 28th July 2003 12:21 AM

"Question though- whats the best way to make such a gradual cut on a sheet of MDF like that?"

Nadda cut, easier to sand it down to the desired angle.

"I have the peerless crossed over at 90 hz cause theres somethin in my door that rattles and I play alot of club/techno music and the bass content usually has enough power to overload the drivers when played very loud. I run about 125x2 to the front speakers."

They should easily handle that power down to 60-70hz. Turn your subwoofers off and give a listen to just the components at a volume you would usually listen to it. Creep down with the HP point and see if the door rattling is even caused by the speakers (I'd bet that it's the subs). If it does turn out to be the speakers, as I said before, the MDF baffle can help eliminated the resonances. I think your difficulty in 'integrating' the subwoofer into the system could be the high lowpass point.

Brett D. 28th July 2003 12:38 AM

The Rattling could be comming from the doors, it is a possibility
but I think the advice Baba just gave is very good advice. Have
you added any noise dampening yet? The Corvette's whole door
is made of Fiberglass and has metal side impact beams inside
plus all of the power window guts and I believe the Body Control
Module (BCM) is located in the doors. There are lots of parts to rattle there and things love to rattle in the 60-80hz range.

As for doing angle cuts on MDF sanding may be the best way if
you aren't taking about major angles.. You could cut the MDF on
a table saw but it would be very tricky to make the cut and could
be very dangerous. Some ruff paper on an orbital sander should
knock the MDF down in no time.

eRiCdWoNg 29th July 2003 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BabaBooey
"Question though- whats the best way to make such a gradual cut on a sheet of MDF like that?"

Nadda cut, easier to sand it down to the desired angle.

"I have the peerless crossed over at 90 hz cause theres somethin in my door that rattles and I play alot of club/techno music and the bass content usually has enough power to overload the drivers when played very loud. I run about 125x2 to the front speakers."

They should easily handle that power down to 60-70hz. Turn your subwoofers off and give a listen to just the components at a volume you would usually listen to it. Creep down with the HP point and see if the door rattling is even caused by the speakers (I'd bet that it's the subs). If it does turn out to be the speakers, as I said before, the MDF baffle can help eliminated the resonances. I think your difficulty in 'integrating' the subwoofer into the system could be the high lowpass point.


Hmm maybe.... I have an audiocontrol EQX... goodthing I have some metal film resistors I can "make" a 70 hz plug for. As for the sanding thing, I thought about this but looks like thats the conesenses and thinking about it thats really the only option... I'm feeling very lazy today so I'll probbly do this another day.


Quote:

Originally posted by Brett D.
The Rattling could be comming from the doors, it is a possibility
but I think the advice Baba just gave is very good advice. Have
you added any noise dampening yet? The Corvette's whole door
is made of Fiberglass and has metal side impact beams inside
plus all of the power window guts and I believe the Body Control
Module (BCM) is located in the doors. There are lots of parts to rattle there and things love to rattle in the 60-80hz range.

As for doing angle cuts on MDF sanding may be the best way if
you aren't taking about major angles.. You could cut the MDF on
a table saw but it would be very tricky to make the cut and could
be very dangerous. Some ruff paper on an orbital sander should
knock the MDF down in no time.


Its the window thats ratting. I cant quite pinpiont it down I have the entire door opened up, tightened all that I could but it still rattles. and it also bangs around when I'm driving down the road. Damn GM vehicles....:mad: anyway, the passenger side doesnt do it, but the driver one does... grrr.

Brett D. 29th July 2003 04:25 AM

Could be the Window Regulator.. There were known problems
and a recall on the window regulators on 97-98 Corvette's. My
friend has a 98 Nass Coupe and he has had both his regulators
replaced under the TSB.


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