Which Chinese brand speakers

[ksporry]

Right, living in China these days, I'm focussing myself on the Chinese audio market. I bet they are an undiscovered gem. There are a couple of brands I am interested in:
1) HiVi Swan F2.2F
2) ShengYa LS-310
3) CAV MD-EX3G

Price ranges from about 13000RMB rrp for the LS-310, to about 16-18.000RMB for the F2.2F's, to around 30.000RMB for the CAV's.
So far my interest goes to the CAV's. I can listen to all of them, but ofcourse using different setups.
They will be used on a Consonance Opera Reference 5.5 mk2 tube amp.

Knowing this, which one would be more suitable? Has anyone got any experience either with these models (preferably), or these brands?

If people want links to manufacturer websites, let me know (though I think google is an easy friend )


Thanks for any advice you can give me!

[Flaesh]

cav ch-1 - indescribable beauty
CAVÀöÉùÒôÏì

[ThorstenL]

Hi,

Originally Posted by ksporry

They will be used on a Consonance Opera Reference 5.5 mk2 tube amp.

Knowing this, which one would be more suitable?

This is a 300B Parallel Single Ended Amplifier with a claimed output power of 18 Watt.

This means you need a speaker which is not too disturbed by a fairly high source impedance. Also, given the very limited power available the speaker should have 94dB/2.83V/1m sensitivity (real, not made up) if it offers a genuine 8 ohm impedance. If it is (like it is very common) essentially a 4 Ohm speaker you need to add 3dB more, so it would have to offer 97dB/2.83V/1m.

A cursory look via the net does not seem to suggest any of the models you list as suitable, in fact they all seem depressingly unsuited.

Originally Posted by ksporry

Has anyone got any experience either with these models (preferably), or these brands?

I heard HiVi at shows and their stuff seemed okay, nothing earth shattering, but seemed well designed and made. Nothing in their lineup I'd care to pair with an SE Amp though.

I came across a shop selling CAV in Athens when I was there on business and had a listen, to that exact ostentatious nouveau riche (or pretend nouveau riche - read chav) speaker you seem to have an eye on. To say I was underwhelmed by the audition would be a compliment.

The whole system was rather bad, maybe the CAV electronics where the cause, not the speakers, but I did not bother to find out. It seemed very much targeted at AV and was just awful with music.

No Idea on Sheng Yang. Is that not where they make the chinese Mig's based on 1960's soviet designs?

As I am not an expert (or even knowledgeable) on chinese speakers I cannot make positive recommendations from that market. At some time Opera made their own horn speaker which would possibly be a decent match with the Ref 5.5 Amp.

My gut feeling would be to look closer at the HiVi speaker and consider a more conventional and more powerful Tube Amp. Opera has some push-pull ones with multiple pairs of output tubes, as do some other chinese tube amp makers that have some profile in the west, which give a fairly decent level of output power, look at something in the 100W ballpark.

Ciao T

[ksporry]

Ok, thanks for your opinion.
As for the amp, I have it, so it's not a matter of lets just get another one. As it happens, I have been driving my CDM 7NTs quite well on a mengyue X1, which is 20W, and the CDMs are no more than 88dB at best. So I know it's realistically possible, even though the numbers tend to disagree.
As a question: why would the R5.5 be considered as unconventional? It appears to be pretty conventional to me. If not, I doubt anything is conventional in tube world. Just an observation...

I did have a brief listen to the MD-EX3Gs in the mall here, and I agree they don't blow me away for what they look like, especially compared to my CDM NTs, I expected more.
The seller of the R5.5 suggested Opera Consonance speakers (M8, M15, M18, which are affordable, being in the same price league as the HiVi and the CAVs), and Aural Cantus is also a brand thrown around a lot, though not as high efficiency as the Opera's.

Now if we go for affordable high efficiency speakers, I'd be very interested in knowing my options, with up to 3k GBP to spend. Currently size does not matter too much,and I plan to buy a couple of 845 monos in the near future as well,just for ha-ha's.

[planet10]

Does Hong Kong count as China? Perfectly suited to the PSE would be Pensil 10.2 or Pensil12 from Twin Audio.

dave

[planet10]

Originally Posted by ksporry

I have been driving my CDM 7NTs quite well on a mengyue X1, which is 20W, and the CDMs are no more than 88dB at best.

It isn't the efficiency, it is the shape of the impedance curve...

dave

[abraxalito]

Originally Posted by ksporry

Right, living in China these days

Curious - whereabouts are you?

, I'm focussing myself on the Chinese audio market. I bet they are an undiscovered gem.

There are indeed some undiscovered gems. Problem is, I haven't discovered them yet - at least not in passive speakers. Like Thorsten, I've heard CAV and can't decide if I dislike the sound or the appearance more. So far I've been very happy buying up fairly cheap (under 3000rmb) active speakers and heavily modding them. The ones I've been playing with most recently are from www.fayou.com Your budget looks to be much much bigger than mine so I can only guess you're still on a Western-sized salary...

Did you buy the CDM 7's in UK and import them? B&W are inordinately expensive here, must be import tax or something.

[ksporry]

I'm in Shanghai, so pretty much at the most expensive part of China.
And yes, I bought the B&W's when I was still in the UK, quite a few years ago now. STill love them and complement them with an MJ acoustics Reference I sub (also from the UK).

Yes, B&W's are insanely expensive even though they are made in Shenzen or so. Problem is that indeed CHina charges quite a bit on taxes. Considering that any product for the western market has to be re-imported, prices for western products tend to be quite high in China. Hence I want to focus on the local market. Like Consonance is pretty reputable, and not one of the cheapest as a result. The others are quite moddable.

Back to speakers, I spotted BD-Designs, which look amazing, but so do their prices! Real Dutch prices if you ask me (ashamed to admit I'm one of them!). Now the design rocks, and hopefully so does the sound. Now I don't needa flip-over design, but teh style I do like. If I could get something like that for around 3k GBP, that'd be awesome!

[ThorstenL]

Hi,

Originally Posted by ksporry

As for the amp, I have it, so it's not a matter of lets just get another one.

Too bad.

Originally Posted by ksporry

As it happens, I have been driving my CDM 7NTs quite well on a mengyue X1, which is 20W, and the CDMs are no more than 88dB at best.

So, how does the Opera Amp drive the B&W's.

The CDM7 are fairly decent speakers, you would have to (even in china) spend real money to beat them comprehensively.

I probably would still not attempt to drive them with something like 20 Watt.

Of course, they will make sound (even with 1 Watt they will), but you will find you hit the "ceiling" quickly.

My current speakers are 90dB/2.83V/1m and around 5 Ohm, I drive them with a 35 Watt Tube Amp on the 4 Ohm Tap. Using highly dynamic music (e.g. not compressed to 6dB dynamic range to sound LOUD) I can overload the system quite easily.

Due to the relationships in power and loudness, double power is only a small increase in loudness, so I am currently looking to boost the power levels in my system to something in the 200W region.

I know, I should just build better (read higher efficiency) speakers, but that is another story.

Originally Posted by ksporry

As a question: why would the R5.5 be considered as unconventional? It appears to be pretty conventional to me.

It is about as conventional as 300B PSE Amplifiers come. It is just that 300B PSE Amplifiers as such are considered a rare and refined breed...

Originally Posted by ksporry

The seller of the R5.5 suggested Opera Consonance speakers (M8, M15, M18, which are affordable, being in the same price league as the HiVi and the CAVs),

Go please try them. They may not be for you, but it's worth finding out. Opera has decent demo facilities, so next time you go to Beijing set up a demo with your Amp and whatever speaker you fancy (I'd say go straight for the M15 if size is no issue).

Originally Posted by ksporry

and Aural Cantus is also a brand thrown around a lot, though not as high efficiency as the Opera's.

That would be Aurum Cantus. Their speakers are a mixed bag. Some are pretty good. They do get imported into the west and get reviews, so you can get some feel.

Originally Posted by ksporry

Now if we go for affordable high efficiency speakers, I'd be very interested in knowing my options, with up to 3k GBP to spend.

My advise?

Buy a pair of Tannoy Monitor Red 15" Drivers (made in the 1960's in the UK to standards noever re-attained subsequently) of e-bay or from a source in the UK, get a company in China (I can dig out my contacts in Guangzhou) to build you a pair of GRF Autograph copies in plywood.

You will be grinning like the proverbial cheshire cat every time you listen to that system, plus any chinese audiophile will give you "respect".

Of course, they are also nearly the biggest speakers you could get. And as I found during my visits in China, size does matter (Jisbon's are way too small)...

Ciao T

[abraxalito]

Originally Posted by ksporry

I'm in Shanghai, so pretty much at the most expensive part of China.

There's a new 'bullet' train so I'm just 45mins from you I think. Haven't tried it yet.

And yes, I bought the B&W's when I was still in the UK, quite a few years ago now. STill love them and complement them with an MJ acoustics Reference I sub (also from the UK).

I bought CM1s here a few years back, the price premium was about 20% I think. Drove them from a Xindak amp which I bought here. Eventually I couldn't resist the urge to activate them as the bass response is peaked up with a huge air-core inductor. I started out using foobar's active plug-in and went from there. Strangely, having acquired various other local active speakers, I now find them too coloured and stopped playing them many months ago. How weird is that?

Yes, B&W's are insanely expensive even though they are made in Shenzen or so.

Oh, I didn't know B&W had moved to offshore production for the higher value lines. Those always used to be made in Worthing. I'm a bit out of date, left UK in 2005.

Back to speakers, I spotted BD-Designs, which look amazing, but so do their prices! Real Dutch prices if you ask me (ashamed to admit I'm one of them!). Now the design rocks, and hopefully so does the sound. Now I don't needa flip-over design, but teh style I do like. If I could get something like that for around 3k GBP, that'd be awesome!

I think such designs will be made in China sometime in the future, if there's appreciable demand. Maybe they'll just be clones. Then the price will be far lower...