What technical issue ruins sibilants?

[AllenB]

I'm referring to that sound where a singers tongue seems to bounce, sounding like it is spittle covered at the time (sorry for the image )

I've narrowed it down to four possibilities that I can think of (these are only suggestions)

1. It's just there in the recordings (as I certainly don't notice any on some recordings)

2. A group delay between woofer and tweeter.

3. Power response irregularities around the crossover with flat on axis response.

4. Frequency response irregularities around the crossover.

[SY]

In order of probability, mikes, recording/mastering eq, tweeter.

[Godzilla]

I went full range driver specifically because of this sibilance issue. There must be other ways of minimizing it even in multi-way systems. If the response has a rise around 2 - 4 kHz there is sibilance. Probably also related to crossover issues for sure in many cases. The tweeter isn't always to blame, it can be the woofer/midrange driver breaking up around those frequencies. Sometimes it's on the recording. Once you minimize it it's easy to spot it on other speakers/sound systems. When it's gone or minimized you don't miss it!

[Pano]

Bad crossovers can add it to an otherwise good recording. So can frequency peaks not related to the x-over.

A bad crossover can also give a singer a lisp. Pretty funny.

[sreten]

Hi,

Poor distortion performance from any part of the chain can ruin sibilants.
Sometimes this can even be on the recordings, treble peaks don't help.

So called "Exciters" used on pop recordings can be a cause of sibilance.

Basically its either distortion or treble peaking accentuating the harmonics.

rgds, sreten.

There are also the much rarer self descriptive terms shibilant and thibilant.

[AllenB]

Originally Posted by panomaniac

Bad crossovers can add it to an otherwise good recording.

The biggest variable in my system is the recordings. They're just all over the place, so I'm thinking the recording chain is mostly to blame. My 3-4k region is down 2dB.

However, I don't expect every recording to trigger a specific fault in my system, so I'm still suspicious, but I do believe that the problems I hear on some recordings seem greater than any problem I'm able to clearly identify in my system.

So how would I confirm a bad crossover? My on axis response is +-2dB over the central regions (with 1/3 octave smoothing) with the right trends about it. Off axis has recieved attention. Would I find it in the phase data? My drivers are not time aligned by any means but they add well all the same.

[sreten]

Hi, for subtle issues your talking frequency and power response, rgds, sreten.

Tweeters used distortion wise lower than they go, can and will melt your ears.

[SY]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

I went full range driver specifically because of this sibilance issue.

Ironically, there are Lowthers...

[Pano]

Phase can do it, or as sreten mentions, distortion. Those harmonics don't show up on the FR plot, but you can sure hear them. So it could be distortion on the low end of the tweeter's range, and maybe phase issues. It isn't easy to solve.

Do you have a good pair of headphones to compare to?

[AllenB]

With regards to distortion, I'm using good compression tweeters at domestic levels. They are also crossed well below the normal sibilance region.

My system bears quite a resemblance to my headphones ($100, made using FEA, not too bad) mainly in the areas of timbreal balance and the dry acoustic.

My biggest technical concern about my system is that the tweeter is over six inches behind the woofer.

Currently about a quarter of all recordings on my system sound better than I have ever heard them anywhere before (BTW, thanks to knowledge gained at this forum), and I could probably double that if I would loosen up to a nice EQ...I've heard many a bad recording sound much better on a system that by its character gives away the fact that it is thoroughly EQed. Per song settings would be even better.

One thing that I have found by my incorrectly using so many dome tweeters in the past (as opposed to using dome tweeters correctly) is that when you stress their low end, and you mis-match the power responses of the drivers you get a certain character that highlights the crossover in a bad way and you can always hear it. The recordings that sound good on these systems don't hide the fault so much as they exploit it, which is really just a coincidental thing.