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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 13th June 2012, 03:11 PM   #161
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No problems. Hope you'll get well soon!

This is my 'Zilch reference' page out of those thousands of posts:

Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker - Page 16 - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

Hope that helps. I've seen and heard Zilch's crossover since a friend bought them second hand. But really not sure who'se selling them now. Of course you can build one yourself.
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Old 27th June 2012, 04:15 AM   #162
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Thanks for the reply Gain!

Well, me being 41 yrs old, and never ever needing the emergency room for nothing until this hit me like a ton of bricks, but I've been recovering from surgery for the last 3 weeks, I'm off weight restrictions, and finally getting around to building some Econowaves !!!

I was looking to either build zilch's Econowave deluxe version, but when I saw your set that you made, I was very impressed that maybe your set would be a better fit for my room, as I want to build a right, left, center version for my home theater, but I wanted to just buy the cross-overs or buy something through you, I'm not sure with Zilch's design ( if his design uses 12 or 15" woofers ), but some of the Econowave designs were made with 15" woofers, where I wanted to stick with the 12" designs, that would work with my other speakers.

I will check out the thread you linked in your reply, again I really appreciate your help! Thanks again!
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Old 27th June 2012, 09:08 AM   #163
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The biggest difference is Zilch are passive loudspeakers. You need only a normal stereo amps to power them. Mine are active and they require 4 channels.

Although they have their benefits from being active, if you'd want to have HT setup it becomes unpractical and expensive !
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Old 27th June 2012, 07:48 PM   #164
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I've been wanting to build a set of econowaves for a couple years now, an am considering doing these as a portable PA / boombox. Any thoughts?
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Old 26th November 2013, 09:38 PM   #165
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Click the image to open in full size.

James Murphy from LCD Soundsystem appears to be mastering his music with Econowaves now!

Neat.

In the pic above, I've pasted an Econowave on the left, and James Murphy spinning on the right. (Note the econowaves behind him.)

On the downside, he mentioned in the video that he 'makes studio monitors for DFA' (his label) and that 'artists on our label can make a beautiful pair of studio monitors for $700.' But he didn't bother to mention it's origins (Sure looks like an Econowave to me.)

Hopefully he gives credit where credit is due.

Full video:

Despacio soundsystem: James Murphy and 2ManyDJs in conversation - YouTube

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 26th November 2013 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 15th February 2015, 12:09 PM   #166
kalle85 is offline kalle85  Norway
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hello gainphile. i have some questions regarding the crossover in these, that seems way off to me.
i can see both the 20hz and 35hz linkwintz transform has a massive +20db boost all the way to 10hz (!) for some reason, why is this?
Click the image to open in full size.

example one, a passive speaker pretty close in principle to the active, makes it to around 37hz -3db without any electrical EQ.
Fusion-12 Tempest DIY Sound Group

example two, although the LXmini has much lower effeciency it doesnt utilize linkwitz transform and basically can do with a 7db 50hz peak, making it 45hz -3db. no boost at lower frequencies as described in the design section:
"Equalization is achieved by a 7 dB peak in the frequency response of the DSP. This form of equalization is advantageous because the response drops below 50 Hz towards 0 dB, thus relieving the driver somewhat of excessive excursions below the peak frequency."
Click the image to open in full size.


i find the 20hz config unusable with moust of my equipment because it easely clips the output of the minidsp. a 20db boost would imply lowering the input voltage by the same amount to prevent it from distorting. swapping the jumper from 0.9V to 2V doesnt do much either, because its only a resistor, padding the signal down by 7db. the IC would clip when input/ouput relations are the same.
when lowering input voltage enough to prevent clipping, you would have a new problem, not enough voltage into the amplifier.

why is this massive boost even there? it strains both the crossover and the woofer excursion for no reason, if the speaker is measured to 35hz -3db all the EQ at lower freq has no porpuse but to increase distortion.
i find it quite odd..

thanks
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Old 15th February 2015, 02:18 PM   #167
kalle85 is offline kalle85  Norway
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correction, ofcourse i relize that the speaker would dig significantly deeper. adding a bit of bass in an active setup is fine, but using your front speakers with a single 12" 3mm woofer as as a partial subwoofer is a different matter.
i tried editing the parametric EQ band 2, but the settings get reset when switching to basic, so i wouldnt know what the settings are.
if i bypass EQ band 3 it looks better, but it also effects freq response from 100-200hz.

Click the image to open in full size.

i wonder, since a passive version has the potential to be quite flat, and linkwitz manages with one simple boost, why add this amount of EQ and increase distortion when it still "only" does 35hz -3db?
thanks.
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Old 20th February 2015, 12:11 PM   #168
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So many questions I will try to answer to my best

Quote:
hello gainphile. i have some questions regarding the crossover in these, that seems way off to me.
i can see both the 20hz and 35hz linkwintz transform has a massive +20db boost all the way to 10hz (!) for some reason, why is this?
Yes those settings are to reach the very bottom and demands a lot of excursion. Threre is not a lot of true 20hz, Q=0.5 loudspeakers out there!

I'm surprised that it clips on your system as in mine they play really loud (4mx7m room) with no issue and use cheap ebay amps too. I prefer the 35hz one btw. There's an old clip here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwSK8dmeqgU

I guess you can change the LT to 80hz and use subwoofers if high SPL is needed? It will only need +6dB at 20hz.

biquad1,
b0=0.995473274214229,
b1=-1.97915051273455,
b2=0.98381459056817,
a1=1.97916492622105,
a2=-0.979273451295896


Quote:
example one, a passive speaker pretty close in principle to the active, makes it to around 37hz -3db without any electrical EQ.
Fusion-12 Tempest DIY Sound Group
They are ported/bass reflex loudspeakers, not sealed. The lower octaves are emmitted by those holes and there are a lot of debate whether this is fit for audiophile use. Loud, for sure

Quote:
example two, although the LXmini has much lower effeciency it doesnt utilize linkwitz transform and basically can do with a 7db 50hz peak, making it 45hz -3db. no boost at lower frequencies as described in the design section:
They are 5" drivers, and I can tell you the excursion will be crazy if one tries to equalise to 20hz. I did this with my pluto clone. EVERY ONE who had listened to them had to walk and see for themselves. Quite impressive.


Quote:
why is this massive boost even there? it strains both the crossover and the woofer excursion for no reason, if the speaker is measured to 35hz -3db all the EQ at lower freq has no porpuse but to increase distortion.
i find it quite odd..
thanks
There will always be compromises between SPL and frequency extension. Try to equalise it to 80hz as above ?

Quote:
i tried editing the parametric EQ band 2, but the settings get reset when switching to basic, so i wouldnt know what the settings are.
if i bypass EQ band 3 it looks better, but it also effects freq response from 100-200hz.
EQ3 is for baffle step compensation. It is needed if the speakers are breathing free (e.g. 1m from front walls), but not needed when they are against the wall.
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Last edited by gainphile; 20th February 2015 at 12:15 PM.
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