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Old 18th November 2010, 06:42 AM   #1
DIFORCE is offline DIFORCE  Australia
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Default crossover help for Troel's Ellam

I'm buildint Troel's Ellam with the scanspeak 9800 alu dome tweeter and I have a few questions , Does it matter If I use copper foil or air core inductors ?
does thier AWG matter ? In the tweeter path there is a 20 AWG 0.15mH inductor , What if I change that to lets say Goertz cooper foil 16 AWG ? Is that OK and are better inductors make a diffrence ?

Basically im asking if I could put any AWG coil be it foil or not as long as i keep the intended mH value ...
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Old 18th November 2010, 07:29 AM   #2
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Wire's resistance is determined by : length; area section ;metal used .
When a crossover filter is being elaborated ,currents that will flow in each component are calculated too .If a woofer absorbs 10 A (pulses only !) the resistance of the coil (the low-pass one/ones) will be part of its performance . Tweeters are a little bit more fragile than woofers . Remember that often when specified , the resistance(and then ,the sectional area) of the coil is fundamental for a correct funktioning of the crossover circuit .
Changes just for style or worse ,for neglecting basic electronics ,are bad.
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Old 18th November 2010, 07:56 AM   #3
DIFORCE is offline DIFORCE  Australia
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sorry Didn't quite get what you were saying , So I cant change the type of inducter and thier size ?

Does that mean that air core 20 AWG valued 0.5mH will be different then copper foil 14 AWG that is also valued 0.5mH ? Are they not the same if in the end they are both 0.5mH ?

So it IS critical to keep the size and type of the inducter ( and obviously mH value ) the same as in the original plan ?

problem is those madisound inductors look cheap ( https://www.madisound.com/store/inde...Path=404_20_26 ) and I dont want it to hurt the performance of the expensive scanspeak drivers ...
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Old 18th November 2010, 09:58 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by DIFORCE View Post
sorry Didn't quite get what you were saying , So I cant change the type of inducter and thier size ?

Does that mean that air core 20 AWG valued 0.5mH will be different then copper foil 14 AWG that is also valued 0.5mH ? Are they not the same if in the end they are both 0.5mH ?

So it IS critical to keep the size and type of the inducter ( and obviously mH value ) the same as in the original plan ?

problem is those madisound inductors look cheap ( https://www.madisound.com/store/inde...Path=404_20_26 ) and I dont want it to hurt the performance of the expensive scanspeak drivers ...
I'm not looking at the xover in question. But inductors have parameters like capacitive, inductive and resistive. If you go with the inductive param. like you said and the resistive param. you will be very much inside spec. Usually changing gauge/diameter of a wire changes resistive value.
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Old 18th November 2010, 10:11 AM   #5
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I have the ellam, very nice sound

the r1031 is the resistor of coils 0,2 ohm need near this , but not so much problem for the tw, I use a solen liz here....

All clarity caps , and kiwane for the tw a lot better the mox resistor, you can try mills too , in the and your taste...

for l2021 no problem as he have in series a real 1ohm resistor , the most important is the l2011 0.3ohm as in series with woofer..

best
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Last edited by nicoch58; 18th November 2010 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 18th November 2010, 05:51 PM   #6
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"Basically im asking if I could put any AWG coil be it foil or not as long as i keep the intended mH value ... "

As long as you use the correct values you'll be OK. Foil inductors are VERY pricey and will not make an audible difference in your speakers. This subject is one of endless debate but many very competent speaker designers won't touch "boutique" crossover components and consider them a big waste of money.
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Old 18th November 2010, 07:26 PM   #7
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hummm sorry but with quality scanspeak you must use good part!! all is important...

thinks how many $$ burn on cable and how many meter of wire are in the choke!! better use ofc copper here....or at last decent copper !

choke shake , flat copper are better , put the filter out
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Old 18th November 2010, 07:32 PM   #8
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Default Like I Said...

It's a subject of endless debate
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Old 18th November 2010, 07:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sdclc126 View Post
" This subject is one of endless debate but many very competent speaker designers won't touch "boutique" crossover components and consider them a big waste of money.
what ? this is your idea ,sorry the "competent" dont use because he need more $$ profit.

better you read some John Curl post !


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Old 18th November 2010, 07:38 PM   #10
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I was talking about designers, not sellers.

Anyway, I won't get into a back-and-forth about this - it will just extend the endless debate, with no conclusion.
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