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-   -   Linkwitz Orions beaten by Behringer.... what!!? (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/177403-linkwitz-orions-beaten-behringer-what.html)

gainphile 16th November 2010 10:56 PM

Linkwitz Orions beaten by Behringer.... what!!?
 
Having lived and refining my DIY dipoles I'm very happy how they render recording. Obviously the Orions are my dream speakers which I would never afford with such mortgage :vampire:. The dipoles are very untiring and natural to hear albeit their obvious limitations in Bass and transition to dome tweeters (are addressed in JohnK's Nao Note).

Then I read Orion owners hearing the constant directivity loudspeakers (gedlee) and buying them in droves (exaggeration ..). Ok ... so perhaps great dynamics are good. OK so I will investigate myself that by building a CD loudpeakers (Econo-waveguide), 98db and all this weekend. I'll report what's all the fuss is about in different thread.

Now, in 2009 SL announced challange to audio community to investigate optimum polar response for realistic reproduction. So this is old news.

linkwitzlab.com/publications.htm
"The challenge to find the optimum radiation pattern and placement of stereo loudspeakers in a room for the creation of phantom sources and simultaneous masking of real sources"

What I did not know was that a group of well-recognised audiophiles had taken the challenge:

home.provide.net/~djcarlst/smwtms.htm



This was quite seriously organised. ABX, Blind, FR matched etc. A large number of samples too. Dave Clark is an audio engineer and he is well known so I think this response to the challenge is credible. They use 3 speakers for the challenge:
- Linkwitz Orion
- Behringer B2031A
- A strange diy loudspekers, the "IMP" by Gary Eickmeier

Have a read yourself to the result:

home.provide.net/~djcarlst/SLReport10.05.pdf

mirror: http://www.scribd.com/doc/103681479/SLReport10-05

- The Orion was beaten by the dinky Behringer slightly
- The Behringer was beaten by the "IMP"

They were so surprised as well:

1.How did Eickmeier’s cheesy boxes of multiple cheap in-walls come out on top?
2.Why didn’t the Orions in optimum location blow away the references and everything else?
3.Why didn’t placing the Orions near walls hurt their sound more?
4.Why were all the averages clustered around 0.0 (equal to the reference)?


What are the implications for all these for our hobby especially dipole lovers?? I'm surely very excited to complete my CD horns and hear myself. But to build an IMP???

I haven't read any response from SL in regards to this investigation but it surely was interesting enough that he did the investigation himself:
linkwitzlab.com/frontiers_6.htm#Z%20-

He thinks now that the CD box loudspeaker can be a more accurate reproduction tool?

To put things in perspective, the Orions are $9000 loudspeakers and the Behringers are $360.

CLS 16th November 2010 11:47 PM

By "Gary Eickmeier", I found:

Article: An Alternative Approach to Stereo Imaging.(Evaluation) | AccessMyLibrary - Promoting library advocacy

gainphile 17th November 2010 12:41 AM

One would laugh at the descrioption of Eickmer speakers

“Improvement” to Bose 901s—according to Gary
–Four Radio Shack in-wall speakers, one on each face of cabinet
–Pair firing back towards front wall, full level
–Inward facing, 6 dB attenuated
–Outward facing, 12 dB attenuated

But this had beaten both Orion (Dipole) and Behringer (CD) in a blind, controlled listening test. so....? They would even be cheaper than both!

The Behringer's constant directivity measured well apparently, even surprising Dr. Geddes

www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/103872-geddes-waveguides-438.html

Quote:

Another update - I have added the Orion and a two way Behringer to the list of systems. Check out the Behringer! I am impressed - and that's hard to do!
__________________
Earl Geddes Gedlee Website
At $360 even Econowave DIY is hard to compete when considering the amps and cabinets.

My faith is shaken!

cuibono 17th November 2010 12:48 AM

Thanks for posting this - I had heard it was going to happen, but didn't hear anything about it after that. They tried to get a Gedlee speaker in there, but Earl wasn't into it, I think.

I'm very surprised by the results. I wonder what to take from them??

soongsc 17th November 2010 12:58 AM

There must be something wrong. I could not stand listening to the Behringer B2031A
for more than 5 minutes. The sound was quite harsh, probably due to the class D amp in it. I think it would have been a more credible comparison if the Behringer B2031A
had a better amp.

Why would Earl want to get involved with this?

sdclc126 17th November 2010 01:09 AM

IPMs
 
Does anybody have a link to the "IMP" speakers? I couldn't find anything.

dantheman 17th November 2010 01:09 AM

I feel your pain Gain. Been there. Imagine if they had made the cheap mods to the Behringer to reduce its diffraction.

Soongsc, when you were listening, you could read the word "Behringer". It's seems harsh just writing it.

Dan

blakkshepeaudio 17th November 2010 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soongsc (Post 2367572)
There must be something wrong. I could not stand listening to the Behringer B2031A
for more than 5 minutes. The sound was quite harsh, probably due to the class D amp in it. I think it would have been a more credible comparison if the Behringer B2031A
had a better amp.

Why would Earl want to get involved with this?

Behringer still make the B2031P, a passive version. Perhaps a fairer comparison? :confused:

ZilchLab 17th November 2010 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gainphile (Post 2367561)
At $360 even Econowave DIY is hard to compete when considering the amps and cabinets.

Dan and I measured B2031P at ZilchLab one day recently.

I believe he'll tell you the difference is that EconoWaves can crank.... ;)

dantheman 17th November 2010 02:03 AM

And how! E-Z-P-Z. Low power requirement and I'd say a more dynamic presentation as well. My Favorite that I heard was the Deluxe version FWIW.

Dan


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