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Old 23rd February 2013, 04:44 PM   #531
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenm01 View Post
Ask and thou shalt receive!...
Enjoy!
I did, thanks! Coincidentally, I started reading the AES paper yesterday and this simplification cleared up a few points for me. Nice to see real research.
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Old 23rd February 2013, 04:54 PM   #532
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Are there any speakers, DIY or commercial, that have true omni (monopole) response? Even MBL's speakers don't, since there's no radiation to the top or bottom.
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Old 23rd February 2013, 05:22 PM   #533
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
Do you want to know why? Don't ask. I'm not telling.
No need for my sake . . . my rear tweeter had it's own amp (and level control) from day one, and its own equalization soon after.
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Old 23rd February 2013, 05:23 PM   #534
Rudolf is offline Rudolf  Germany
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Originally Posted by Soundtrackmixer View Post
A combination of all their input and end goals. Simple as that.
And how often had the "original artist" the final say? Always? Depends? Rarely?
I'm asking because I still wonder to whom "high fidelity" is really true. Does it really represent the intent of the artist?
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Old 23rd February 2013, 06:10 PM   #535
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Default Linkwitz Orions (and Behringer) beaten by IMP.... what!!?

Hi there !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melo theory View Post
Everybody is comparing the Behringer to the Orion.....
What about the loudspeaker that actually took first place in the challenge?
That crazy IMP!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
Yup, discussing the IMP would be far more interesting.

Agreed ! So lets discuss it ! This 'IMP' is a fruitful ground to learn something new

Here's some of Gary's comments on it:
On testing speakers - High-End-Audio - Audio

Quote:
"http://www.pbase.com/eickmeier/image/712286

It is just a little particle board and Radio Shack speakers and
crossovers, but it satisfied me that the radiation pattern alone could
make it sound pretty good, in spite of the (intentionally) cheap
components. I'm also not convinced that I achieved my radiation pattern
that I was after, but I have no way to measure or pursue that.

Gary Eickmeier"
Remarkable notion is this:
"the radiation pattern alone could make it sound pretty good"


How is the IMP radiation pattern then ? Based on limited online information it appears to provide almost chaotic multi-lobed directional pattern at least in the midrange and treble freqs. It is certainly NOT a point source !

But that is very good actually !

An unarguable fact is generally people like sound which is more spacious than dry. IMP seems to generate highly favourable field with low correlation between direct and reflected sound. Naturalness of the sound field can be high in this case. This can lead to high listener preference.

I'm not surprised IMP won in a blind test. In a sighted test it would have lost. Power of suggestion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by john k... View Post
I will add one thing about such test. Regardless of the tests, if the subjects are used to listen to convectional box speakers then even in a blind test it is probably likely that they will have a build in bias (subconscious) to box type speakers because they will recognize the sound as familiar. Since dipoles will typically sound very different it is likely that they would be discounted as they would stand out and under such tests human psychology suggest that this deviation for the generally more familiar sound of a box system (the norm) would trigger a "fault" response.
But John, your logic does not explain why IMP won ? Can we safely assume IMP is a school example of a conventional box speaker ? And people are very familiar with the sound of it ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Melo theory View Post
I really don't understand the results of this test because if the berries had won than there could be an argument for this type of speaker over the dipole but it didn't....the IMP won!
A speaker that most here wouldn't even give a passing glance to, and haven't so far on this thread.

So the panel of audiophiles chose a speaker that probably has serious lobing and phase issues along with a myriad of other "problems" if read on paper. Then the runner up is a studio monitor. In last place a dipole.
Sure IMP has serious lobing and phasing issues ! (see above) I think that's why it won


Quote:
Originally Posted by Melo theory View Post
Here's a forum he participated in.
On testing speakers - High-End-Audio - Audio
That's good, it's allways nice to see someone arguing with Floyd Toole and Sean Olive

Who is this Mr Eickmeier ?!? Based on his views, there are high chances I might like this gentleman.


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Old 23rd February 2013, 06:12 PM   #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenm01 View Post
Ask and thou shalt receive! I posed the original PowerPoint presentation on my Google Drive, which includes polar plots for both Orion and Behringer.

I didn't attach the slides here, considering the presentation contains high resolution images that exceed the file size limit of this site.

Enjoy!
What, no polar plot for the IMP?
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Old 23rd February 2013, 06:30 PM   #537
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Forget it Elias, most people don't want to consider something new. Most people just want validation of there own beliefs. That's why we are talking about 2nd place! Why challenge ourselves with the notion that we may have been wrong all along by discussing the loudspeaker that actually came out 1st?
That's no fun
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Old 23rd February 2013, 07:11 PM   #538
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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The listening test was termed as "The Linkwitz Challenge"

The purpose being to challenge the old and receive the new information ? I hope. Who wants to hang out with the second (or the third) if there is the winner ?


Gary Eickmeier states:
On testing speakers - High-End-Audio - Audio
Quote:
The answer, as I have stated many times in this and other forums, is to focus on the image model of the live sound vs the reproduction. An image
model is just a plan view of the speakers (or instruments) and all of
their reflections, or reflected images, in the surrounding walls. If the
image model of the reproduction soundfield can be made to come closer to
that of the live situation, it will sound more like it, and therefore
more real. To design speakers, therefore, you work backward from such an
image model to the radiation pattern required to accomplish it. This
makes the loudspeaker, in effect, an Image Model Projector, using the
whole room and its surfaces to create its sound.

I find this parallels very closely to my experiments and findings of using listening room as a sound projector:
Elias Pekonen Home Page - Stereophonic Sound from a Single Speaker


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Old 23rd February 2013, 07:21 PM   #539
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Default Gary Eickmeier

Gary Eickmeier, "An Image Model Theory for Stereophonic Sound"
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Old 23rd February 2013, 07:31 PM   #540
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0T6...it?hl=en&pli=1
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