Linkwitz Orions beaten by Behringer.... what!!? - Page 43 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd February 2013, 03:52 PM   #421
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewardh View Post
That's exactly what a dipole does . . .
Most energy a dipole radiates into the room does only one thing, it masks low level details. Dipoles are a sledgehammer approach not too far from a Bose 901. Why do you think Linkwitz found the Pluto to sound similar to a dipole?

Reflections for added spaciousness and realism should come from only a few distinct locations in order to maintain clarity. In this regard I'd think a toed out cardioid is more desirable than a dipole or omni.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2013, 03:58 PM   #422
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
I was at two live conserts yesterday and the day before. The sound is always different. If you want a record to sound "live", you must also define, which concert hall and which seat, how many people. How are the diffusers, panels and curtains set etc. ..endlessly
Yep. Our festival orchestra performs in multiple venues, ranging from a highly reverberant church to outdoors. I shouldn't need to tell you that the sound is . . . different . . . regardless where you sit (as are the performances, which themselves "adapt" to the acoustics of the different venues).

And I'm 100% with John K's post above . . .
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2013, 04:11 PM   #423
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Most energy a dipole radiates into the room does only one thing, it masks low level details.
That is not my experience. Not even close . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Reflections for added spaciousness and realism should come from only a few distinct locations in order to maintain clarity.
Nor is that. Of course my dipoles are placed so that the primary front wall reflection comes from the corners behind (and outside) the speakers . . . the front wall between them is diffusive (in the line of first reflection).

I also typically listen perhaps a little further back than most here apparently do, since (like John K) I prefer the 1st row balcony perspective for most orchestral recordings. My dipoles, as installed, do that very well (and have done so ever since my first dipoles, a pair of MGII).
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2013, 04:18 PM   #424
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Switzerland
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewardh View Post
That is not my experience. Not even close . .
What is your frame of reference? Just because you don't miss anything while listening to a recording doesn't mean there's more detail to be heard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dewardh View Post
Nor is that.
Well then you're in disagreement with current psychoacoustic literature. Why don't you try the little experiment I've suggested here?
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2013, 04:28 PM   #425
diyAudio Member
 
john k...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: US
I prefer Tchaikovsky to Beethoven,

The Stones to the Beatles,

Ferrairs to Lamborghinis,

BMWs to Mercedes,

New England to the midwest,

Class A transistors to tubes.

Life is about choices.

Reproduction in my home is my choice. I don't need someone else telling me what is right or wrong or trying to define what reproduction is or should or should not be.
__________________
John k.... Music and Design NaO Dipole Loudspeakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2013, 04:35 PM   #426
diyAudio Member
 
john k...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: US
Detail and reflections have to do with just a few things: the delay between direct and reflected sound, and listening distance ( or rationof D to R). You want more deatil, move closer to the speakers and move the speakers further from reflecting surfances. True regardless of source type. Period!

You want max detail? Use head phones, but they never sound very natural because all you hear is what's on the recording.
__________________
John k.... Music and Design NaO Dipole Loudspeakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2013, 04:45 PM   #427
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Maryland
Quote:
Originally Posted by john k... View Post
I don't need someone else telling me what is right or wrong or trying to define what reproduction is or should or should not be.
Nor peddling expensive audiophile garbage based on pseudoscience and subjective nonsense.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2013, 05:08 PM   #428
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
rdf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: big smoke
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenm01 View Post
The problem is that we have pseudo-scientific, unsubstantiated, subjective bias offered by Audiophile Gurus to influence people's purchasing decisions.
'Gurus' are a universal problem. How many have done due diligence and corroborated the measurements and designs they defend? Not that long ago some on the Parts Express forum did just that and found designs highly praised by hard core 'Objectivists' that didn't come close to meeting performance claims, and I believe in one instance a design that was presented as measured but when examined revealed published curves created from manufacturer data sheets.

Your guru waves a graph you take on trust, theirs a magic brick. Behaviourally the primary difference I see is that in most cases the latter aren't as stressed out.
__________________
Ears aren't microphones.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2013, 05:08 PM   #429
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Enschede
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Most energy a dipole radiates into the room does only one thing, it masks low level details. Dipoles are a sledgehammer approach not too far from a Bose 901. Why do you think Linkwitz found the Pluto to sound similar to a dipole?

Reflections for added spaciousness and realism should come from only a few distinct locations in order to maintain clarity. In this regard I'd think a toed out cardioid is more desirable than a dipole or omni.
I agree. The Precendence Effect states that early reflections are not heard as distinct auditory events but rather as coming from the source location. But, all reflections do contribute to the timbre, so a constant directivity source is desirable. Nevertheless it has also been verified that a front wall reflection (just like the floor and ceiling bounce) is much more likely to cause comb filter colouration than a side wall reflection.

Compared to a (hyper)cardioid source has minimal front wall reflections, constant directivity and the option to decrease or increase the level of the side wall reflections by rotating it, without dramatically changing the level of the front wall reflection.

Last edited by a_tewinkel; 22nd February 2013 at 05:14 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2013, 05:21 PM   #430
mac is offline mac  United States
diyAudio Member
 
mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Puget Sound
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenm01 View Post
Nor peddling expensive audiophile garbage based on pseudoscience and subjective nonsense.
I'm curious why it took you three plan purchases from SL to arrive at this conclusion. I'm also curious (for the record) if you built any of them according to design spec.

In any case, it's obvious that you have some sort of irrational agenda that's driving your misguided campaign.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB Linkwitz Orions jrling Swap Meet 0 13th March 2010 05:26 PM
Finally finished my orions srfranci Multi-Way 5 24th July 2009 11:29 AM
My week with the Orions, or 'why do we bother' cuibono Multi-Way 56 26th October 2008 12:51 AM
Can the Dynaudio C1 be beaten by a DIY design obiwan Multi-Way 16 22nd July 2007 10:19 AM
How hard to clone the Orions? Chaucer Multi-Way 46 8th July 2005 02:01 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:17 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2