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Old 21st February 2013, 10:57 AM   #331
6.283 is offline 6.283  Germany
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Originally Posted by greenm01 View Post
After further study I have learned that the dipole is not optimal, particularly in regard to power output. It's a mathematical fact that a dipole radiates much less energy than a monopole.
Mason, I really recommend that you study more about radiations patterns and their interaction with the room and how we perceive the combination.
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Old 21st February 2013, 11:04 AM   #332
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Mason, I really recommend that you study more about radiations patterns and their interaction with the room and how we perceive the combination.
Yes, certainly. I'm interested in learning objective evidence, either way. Although, the double blind testing suggests that radiation patters are not as significant as previously believed.

What can we learn from all this, and still advance the art (or at least understanding)?
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Old 21st February 2013, 11:24 AM   #333
6.283 is offline 6.283  Germany
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Originally Posted by greenm01 View Post
are not as significant as previously believed...
...in creating a plausible AS.

You can slap two crappy 3.5" FR divers in a plastic cube housing and they will create a plausible AS.

Add a sub, print Bo$e on all parts and charge 6 grands. So where is the rip-off exactly ?

Such a piece of $... sits on my desktop and I perceive a plausible AS / phantom image. And what about the rest ?
The rest $u...! because they draw attention, they distort, they don't create anything life-like, they will always sound like dirt cheap speakers, you name it...
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Old 21st February 2013, 11:47 AM   #334
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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No irony , no godlike situation , i still have to get up and push the on button , wait a minute, well except when i call one of the kids to do it ...

Anyway,

What i thought i had conveyed was what works for me, i hope it did not come across as what should work for you or that you have to do it my way. I have heard what you have suggested (deQx) , i have friends who swear by it and its been my experience , such a setup improves a bad situation , but in reality does not match a good situation ...

IMO Adding more stages of electronics to anything is going backwards, enuff was added in the recording production stage , as minimum as possibly in the playback is what sounds best to me , others may disagree , so be it , thus the subjective nature of audio reproduction ..


And yes , i did design and sell studio and mastering monitors decades ago, i have worked with many a successful individuals in the past , it has been my experience very few engineers have ears , what they have is technical knowledge and experience , so they tend to stick to a certain product because of its house sound and industry acceptance , they know what to expect from its coloration like that god awful NS10 ..

start mixing on a set of Orions by your 5 hit and a Grammy , you would be surprised by how many would be beating a path your door for your house sound ..

So yes i stand behind my statement , most of the ones i have met know loud and louder ..

Regards ....



Quote:
Originally Posted by terry j View Post
my apologies for not being clear.

I was 'disputing' any broad statement like 'eq will damage dynamics and image size' (or whatever the exact words were)

In fact almost as a matter of principle I object to virtually ANY broad statement.

I do however, as I said, respect that that has been your experience.




As mentioned, that it is an objection to a too broad generalization, then no real need to be specific about any given system. I will however simply say I use two deqx units, and employ needed eq, and can assure you that never has been uttered any statement like 'poor dynamics or poor imaging' (whatever the exact words were.)

Quite the opposite in fact.

On a side note, I too heard the orions after reading everywhere about 'how close they come to the real thing'. I was decidedly unimpressed. I mean they did not make you run from the room screaming, but I sure did think and wonder what the fuss was.

I have since heard other dipole designs, and think they simply 'are not for me'. In some ways I guess I can see the attraction, if you like diffuse vague sound.

What I certainly did not do was attribute the 'blame' to the use of eq. I'll take your word that they are poorly designed, in fact it would be interesting if you expanded on that.

Poor design as a dipole?? Poor design because it is dipole? I'd like to get your thoughts on your statement.



Well yes, there ya go. If we take as equally prescriptive a statement NOT to do something as a statement TO DO something, then now you'd understand why I responded to your post.

Cause you see, it came across to me that you were passing off as the only way to have a system is NO eq.

Ironic really.

After all, here is your passing off worded in a different way



In addition to you telling us the 'only way' I find it interesting that you have a back up...most of them don't have ears.

What's it like up there in the clouds all by your godlike self?

I really do suggest you at least keep open as an option the possibility that an eq'd system can at least match what you call a 'good speaker'. Admittedly I must admit that by using the deqx it is possible we are moving past what could be called 'mere eq'.

To that degree your observations might have a tad more merit than I have conceded yet.

So, is there NO situation where any sort of eq could make an improvement? What about putting your perfect speaker in a room. There could be no circumstances ever that eq could help?

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Old 21st February 2013, 11:53 AM   #335
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So where is the rip-off exactly ?
Because this hobby is DIY, and there are many uneducated, naive folks to take advantage of. Lets not loose sight of the fact that certain individuals have a product to sell; an agenda to push. Unqualified subjective claims in the name of DIY, in the guise of advancing the art for benevolent purpose, is wrong. It's misleading.

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Originally Posted by SL
It is like a magic trick. MAGIC is my other name for the LX521
This proves my point exactly.

I have a bride to sell in Alaska. Interested?
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Old 21st February 2013, 12:23 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by greenm01 View Post
In a double blind test I doubt SL (nor anyone else) would be able to, without a doubt, distinguish between his own design and the Behringer.
I'd expect this to be rather easy.

The bass from the Behringers stops ~50Hz (granted, a little lower in-room). The Orions have far more LF cone area, and far more excursion. They're eq'd to go considerably lower than the Behringers.

It must be noted that, for the comparison, SL eq'd the Orions to have similar LF extension characteristics to the Behringers.

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Old 21st February 2013, 12:26 PM   #337
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by greenm01 View Post
Because this hobby is DIY, and there are many uneducated, naive folks to take advantage of. Lets not loose sight of the fact that certain individuals have a product to sell; an agenda to push. Unqualified subjective claims in the name of DIY, in the guise of advancing the art for benevolent purpose, is wrong. It's misleading.


This proves my point exactly.

I have a bride to sell in Alaska. Interested?
Green ,

Have you heard the Orions ...?
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Old 21st February 2013, 12:34 PM   #338
lolo is offline lolo  France
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Originally Posted by greenm01 View Post


This proves my point exactly.
No it doesn't!
It is very clear for everybody here that SL hasn't had an agenda for years. You can dislike the designs, that's very possible, but calling them sort of fraudulous is a rather big statement.
My 100$ Olasonics do give a very realistic AS impression. So does a 50$ old bookshelf pair firing up, they can actually be freaking realistic. You can have them for 20$ if you want, or we swap with the LX plans.
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Old 21st February 2013, 12:41 PM   #339
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Old 21st February 2013, 12:47 PM   #340
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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its none of our concern who deserves to be payed or not for doing their work, or how much
its a personal matter

please focus on the tech aspect


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