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Old 17th October 2013, 06:51 AM   #3031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
The tweeter is fine.
I have B2030As, which will be given the full treatment at some stage - but as is, with miserable implementation of the electronics in raw form, they rapidly fall apart when you try and give them some throttle.
Interestingly, they were still the best of the bunch when I auditioned a bunch of name brands over one very solid day of checking out active monitors - some quite expensive units are pretty dreadful, considering the money one's paying ...
Hello ! i have opened a new and specific 3D on this speaker to realize which kind of mods can be performed to increase the already nice quality.
And I sincerely hope you will take part in it sharing your direct experience.

Behringer B2030A modification project.

I need to know about this
Quote:
miserable implementation of the electronics in raw form

Thank you very much indeed.
Kind regards,
gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 17th October 2013 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 28th December 2013, 01:28 AM   #3032
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Default Rough is ready to assist

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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Yes, nothing like a "rough" recording to pinpoint problems. I'm currently listening to a '79 live recording of 2 Tone - version of ska - bands, on a very basic setup -- and doesn't this point out limitations, quick smart! This is a recording that would drive most people mad within minutes, unless they had "perfect" sound ... it gets the job done brilliantly of allowing one to decide whether one's system is 'right', without a shred of measured data ...
Yup. My "difficult" reference is Stevie Nicks'
Belladonna. I have only a couple of test tone CDs and a sp meter, so listening hard to a bad sounding recording is necessary. Good thing I like the music.
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Old 28th December 2013, 01:43 AM   #3033
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Smile Is 8" too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
Yes ... but a 8" woofer up to 2 kHz ... seems a little stretched in the high midrange.
I was undecided but then i decided for the model with the smaller woofer



i think that one very nice thing of actives is that they have an electronic x-over usually with very sharp cut (24dB/octave).
This is good i think
And i think that if you go active you can upgrade the amp part as well.
Regards, gb
For several years I've been using 1" compression mid and treble drivers , loaded by identical 12" round waveguides. These share a simple 24 x54" baffle with a Celestion 15" woofer. After some struggles, I got to like the sound of these a lot.
Put down to similar driver size and radiation pattern, and similar (phenolic) material from the mids up. Recently got some NOS SEAS21TV 8" full range drivers, and they go to 10,000 hz in a straight line if I let 'em. Off axis beaming is an issue , but these are sweet to 4000 hz with a little first order help from a tweeter. And I like little beaming, sort of my point of liking dipoles- takes the rooms influence down a notch. I think a smooth response with minimal breakup may be more important than girth.
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Old 11th January 2014, 10:25 AM   #3034
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Originally Posted by MITsound View Post
For several years I've been using 1" compression mid and treble drivers , loaded by identical 12" round waveguides. These share a simple 24 x54" baffle with a Celestion 15" woofer.
After some struggles, I got to like the sound of these a lot.
Put down to similar driver size and radiation pattern, and similar (phenolic) material from the mids up. Recently got some NOS SEAS21TV 8" full range drivers, and they go to 10,000 hz in a straight line if I let 'em.
Off axis beaming is an issue , but these are sweet to 4000 hz with a little first order help from a tweeter. And I like little beaming, sort of my point of liking dipoles- takes the rooms influence down a notch.
I think a smooth response with minimal breakup may be more important than girth.
Hello and sorry for the belated reply.
Thanks a lot for the very interesting info and advice
I have always tried to understand what makes a speaker sounding beautifully
Probably as you say
Quote:
a smooth response with minimal breakup
is what is needed
Personally I think it is low distortion (the two things can go together anyway)
I think that our ear is particular sensitive to distortion, especially in the mid range
On this basis voices, choirs are the best to assess the quality of a speaker
I heard great sound from extremely different type of speakers, wideband and multi ways
I would bet that they all had a very low distortion
So as long as the distortion is low the sound should be just fine, at least IMHO
Thanks again
Kind regards,

gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 11th January 2014 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 12th January 2014, 08:54 AM   #3035
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Not sure what you mean by "beaten by" but the fact is that professional loudspeakers, particularly those for live sound, have always understood the benefits of CD. It has always been important to be able to direct the sound and to ensure where possible the loudspeaker has ideally the same directivity throughout the frequency range.

What still fails often to be understood is that regardless of "reverberant space" the "other channel loudspeaker" does more to create interference (peaks and troughs) than any room ever will, it is after all the source. At low frequencies there are many ways of dealing with this with more loudspeakers, placement, delays, etc. There are even free programmes that will work all this out for you as a good starting point.

It is possible to create uniform spl throughout a space with dipoles, monopoles, bipole or cardioids or a mixture of the different types. Problem is you are on a poor starting point with just two loudspeakers as the original source!

As frequencies rise, and you want to keep to stereo, tighter dispersion may produce less interference. Those that use horns, even in the home, know this. Many harp on about the distortion in horns but in honesty when they produce 110dB for 1watt the actual measured distortion at normal listening levels may be a fraction of direct radiators. The concerns about "time alignment" due to different horn depths is a simple matter now with DSP to control delays.

www.soundright.org.uk has done a lot of research into polar patterns and configuration of loudspeakers to control interference and may be worth taking a look?

And yes, Sound Right is mine!!
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Old 12th January 2014, 12:14 PM   #3036
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
I think that our ear is particular sensitive to distortion, especially in the mid range
On this basis voices, choirs are the best to assess the quality of a speaker
I don't think the bass and lower midrange should be underestimated. With enough of the right distortions they will be just as annoying. Not as confronting, but perhaps more relentless.

Trying to eq problems here may lead to a compromise with the wanted sound leading to bass instruments and the lower vocal register (for example) that are both unsatisfying and annoying. Rather than a vocalist and a drummer feeling like they are together in a room, they may (eg) sound like separate recordings superimposed with only the distortion tying them together.
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Old 12th January 2014, 04:45 PM   #3037
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
I think that our ear is particular sensitive to distortion, especially in the mid range
Thanks again
Kind regards,

gino
Gino - where does this belief come from? I don't think that it is true. At least not if you mean nonlinear distortion. It is certainly true of linear distortion.
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Old 12th January 2014, 06:00 PM   #3038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginetto61 View Post
Hello and sorry for the belated reply.
Thanks a lot for the very interesting info and advice
I have always tried to understand what makes a speaker sounding beautifully
Probably as you say is what is needed
Personally I think it is low distortion (the two things can go together anyway)
I think that our ear is particular sensitive to distortion, especially in the mid range
On this basis voices, choirs are the best to assess the quality of a speaker
I heard great sound from extremely different type of speakers, wideband and multi ways
I would bet that they all had a very low distortion
So as long as the distortion is low the sound should be just fine, at least IMHO
Thanks again
Kind regards,

gino
I agree that the midrange is where we hear best; maybe it helped our forebears avoid cheetahs rustling through the leaves towards them . But a funny thing happened yesterday. Always enjoyed headphone listing; for the first time ever, I loaded up my phone and used this for commuting. Okay sound until boarding the train. Mids and highs were there, but the rumble was messing with the bass pitch, and that skewed my enjoyment of everything.
I build high rises for a living, and an axiom at work holds true for playback too: if your foundation is weak, it's pointless to proceed without fixing it.
I think if ones bass response is wrong, that's enough to mess up all the rest of the structure (harmonics?) in your music.
Most people think bass is easy, but I don't believe good bass is easy or a cheap date.
Best of luck and planning with your project,
Mitchell.
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Old 12th January 2014, 07:38 PM   #3039
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Interesting thought, Mitchell. There may be some research into the psychoacoustic effects of bass on the other frequency ranges. Let's have a look around. Someone here should be able to point out some good research.
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Old 12th January 2014, 08:36 PM   #3040
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I suspect that, due to the rumble from trains etc being broadband in nature, you'll be getting interference with notes in your music. Instead of cancelling out perfectly, however, you might get beats if the two frequencies (music and rumble) are a couple of Hz off.
That pulses any LF tones in your music, but might make you hear the rumble (if that's of a slightly higher frequency) instead of the music, putting the low-frequencies off-key slightly, but only at certain times.

Maybe.


I just tried to replicate the effect with some headphones: band-filtered pink noise while music was playing.
Very weird, but hard to definitely identify any particular effects. I'll try playing the pink noise through my stereo and music through headphones, see how that goes.

Morphine - Buena seems to show it up quite well with the slide-bass.

Chris
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