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Old 11th July 2013, 01:04 AM   #3011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
This is of course true and quite consistent with the human condition. Which is why I just do not accept any of the subjective comments on any speaker within these forums. I will look at valid data, but opinions are pretty much pointless in situations like this. We latch on to what we believe and we don't let go no matter what. Its never going to be any different.

If you want to read how bad this situation really is, and trust me its worse than you can even imagine, read Thinking, Fast and Slow: Daniel Kahneman: 9780374275631: Amazon.com: Books
I tried to find a copy of the book online, and the first link is the CIA website

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...and%20Slow.pdf
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Old 11th July 2013, 06:10 AM   #3012
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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It is really difficult to understand what measured data reveals what unless one has first hand experience with hearing the difference before and after resolving issues. Sometimes other more subtle issues become audible, and you kind of wonder whether it's new or was originally inaudible. The process always begins with not being satisfied with a system. Generally it is easier to hear whether something is not right. Someone actually used different music to pinpoint what was not right, once I understood what he was hearing, it was easy to figure out what needed change. When one has gone through a series of this, it is possible to generate some technical criteria that will help zero in on the final design faster. The difficult thing is the design trade offs, do you design for what you think the market will like, or do you design for what you believe is reveals the performance more truthfully. Then there is the "how does it look" and how you prioritize with "how it sounds". Reading books is good, but you always want to integrate knowledge in the books with your own instead of going by the books.
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Old 11th July 2013, 07:00 AM   #3013
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Generally it is easier to hear whether something is not right. Someone actually used different music to pinpoint what was not right, once I understood what he was hearing, it was easy to figure out what needed change.
Yes, nothing like a "rough" recording to pinpoint problems. I'm currently listening to a '79 live recording of 2 Tone - version of ska - bands, on a very basic setup -- and doesn't this point out limitations, quick smart! This is a recording that would drive most people mad within minutes, unless they had "perfect" sound ... it gets the job done brilliantly of allowing one to decide whether one's system is 'right', without a shred of measured data ...
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Old 11th July 2013, 02:26 PM   #3014
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Cyndi Lauper recordings will do that, too.
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Old 11th July 2013, 10:51 PM   #3015
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
I tried to find a copy of the book online, and the first link is the CIA website

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...and%20Slow.pdf
Interesting review. This is absolutely a must read book. One of the best that I have read in a long time.

It is still funny how nobody ever seems to see Kanneman in themselves. But it is clearly in all of us. Believing that it does not apply to you is almost proof that you are probably worse than most.
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Old 14th July 2013, 02:53 PM   #3016
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Gary the "IMP" did not return yet to explain his IMP speakers in more detail ? Did I miss something ?

And how it beat both the Orion and the Behringer
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Old 16th October 2013, 08:51 AM   #3017
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There must be something wrong. I could not stand listening to the Behringer B2031A for more than 5 minutes.
The sound was quite harsh, probably due to the class D amp in it. ...
Interesting speakers.
By the way personally i think that drivers quality matters.
And the woofers are a little suspicious as they should, at that price.
Very good woofers are really expensive
Nevertheless this does not mean that the design cannot be very good, like i think it really is.
My feeling is that with better drivers they would embarrasse a lot of speakers indeed.
And i am actually to try this ... starting with those PP woofers ... they cannot sound good.
It is simply not possible.
But the amps inside are unbelievable. Just look at the toroidal.

Thanks and regards,
gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 16th October 2013 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 16th October 2013, 10:11 AM   #3018
Omholt is offline Omholt  Norway
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I have the smaller Behringer B2030A (as PC speakers). They don't sound harsh at all. On the contrary they sound very relaxed, smooth and are more missing some in clarity and openness compared to speakers with better drivers, which in the wrong setup can sound harsh.

They truly sound better then many expensive speakers out there. Waveguide works.
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Old 16th October 2013, 11:25 AM   #3019
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I have the B2031P . Sounds very good . Nothing harsh about it. Nor is it bright . Well balanced I'd say. Fantastic value for money .
Based on earlier experience with bi amplified systems I'd say that this unit has the potential to sound even better bi-amped. I have not yet opened mine ! But it will be bi-amped one day !

The active system apparently uses LM3886 chip power amps. At least the 3030A/3031A does . Not sure if the latest manufactured units have classD modules.
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Old 16th October 2013, 12:40 PM   #3020
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Originally Posted by Omholt View Post
I have the smaller Behringer B2030A (as PC speakers)
Hello ! i see we are in the same wonderful Country ! Good !
by the way, i have just ordered a pair B2030A myself !
My feeling is that they are out of production or close to be.
In two weeks time i should receive them. I am optimistic.

Quote:
They don't sound harsh at all.
On the contrary they sound very relaxed, smooth and are more missing some in clarity and openness compared to speakers with better drivers, which in the wrong setup can sound harsh.
They truly sound better then many expensive speakers out there.
Maybe i was not that clear. I have a personal predilection for Scanspeak drivers just to make an example.
Just one good woofer from that brand would cost like two complete Behringer speakers.
The cases are two:
1) or the quality has a cost
2) or Scanspeak is charging without reason.
I think 1). Because with a Scan woofer you get less distortion for the same level of sound pressure.
And this is completely reasonable.
Instead electronics are different. Can be made quite cheap and good i think.
Take a Scanspeak same size, put it in the Behringer.
Take a Dynaudio tweeter e put it in the Behringer.
Make some adjustments ... you get a monitor comparable with the very best out there, this is at least what i think.
At a different cost of course.
I agree .. the stock Behringer are good ... i listened to the bigger model with the 8" woofers and they were fine.
I just see a huge potential for upgrading them.

Quote:
Waveguide works
maybe someone must have told them ?

Click the image to open in full size.

Have a nice day !
Kind regards,
gino

Last edited by ginetto61; 16th October 2013 at 12:43 PM.
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