Linkwitz Orions beaten by Behringer.... what!!?

[Fast1one]

That IMP is very intriguing and simple to experiment with cheap full range speakers. Tempted to test it out for myself Anyone have access to the AES paper??

[ZilchLab]

Originally Posted by dabbler

How very disturbing...for Orion owners

Not really -- Orion is a niche of acoustic concert hall realism enthusiasts; the other 97% of listeners have different priorities.

Look at SL's playlist; Pink Floyd and Led Zep are simply not on the radar....

Originally Posted by Linkwitz

#1 - Ofra Harnoy, Romantic Cello Sonatas, Chopin-Franck, RCA Victor 09026-61818-2, track 2, Chopin, Scherzo, 4:33
#2 - Swing Live, Bucky Pizzarelli, Chesky JD218, track 7, Lime House Blues, 9:20
#3 - The Roches, Warner Bros. 3298-2, track 5, The Troubles, 3:24
#4 - Come Rain or Come Shine, Sylvia McNair, Philips 446 818-2, track 2, Stormy Weather, 4:20
#6 - The Dorian Collection, Sampler Vol. 3, From Lieder of Schumann and Brahms (DOR-90132), DOR-90003, track 18, Schumann, Waldesgespraech, 2:05
#8 - The Dorian Collection, Sampler Vol. 3, From the Scottish Lute (DOR-90129), DOR-90003, track 9, Gypsies Lilt, 2:32
#9 - John Rutter, Requiem, Reference Recordings RR-57CD, track 9, Agnus Dei, 7:09
#10 - Gil Shaham, Romances, Deutsche Grammophon 449 923-2, track 5, Beethoven, Romance #1 in G major, 6:13
#11 - Tutti, Orchestral Sampler, Reference Recordings RR-906CD, track 1, Rimsky-Korsakov, Dance of the Tumblers, 3:48
#17 - Mi Buenos Aires querido, Barenboim-Mederos-Console, Teldec 0630-13474-2, track 4, Don Agustin Bardi, 3:12

[gainphile]

Originally Posted by ZilchLab

Not really -- Orion is a niche of acoustic concert hall realism enthusiasts; the other 97% of listeners have different priorities.

Look at SL's playlist; Pink Floyd and Led Zep are simply not on the radar....

Zilch, normally this is the argument for Open Baffle design.

But remember that in this case the Orion is beaten in that exact area (the plausability of sound stage or what SL calls "Auditory Scene" as per his challenge).

The blind test result shows that the Behringer and IMP are better in reproducing believable AS.

That's why it is very "disturbing" I guess.


nb. Dave Clark's tests also includes classical and live jazz recording. Have a look at his presentation.

[ZilchLab]

It'll be interesting to read how your own evaluation shakes out. EconoWave has grown into being somewhat of a cult itself; we're just not so rabid as some of the others.

[Probably because we're too cheap for our interests to be "vested...." ]

[tpakkanen]

The PDF shows that Orions are driven through dcx2496, might that affect things? Any components on the signal path?

P.S. I have to say I'm quite pleased with my 2030P (smaller Behringers), crossed at 120 Hz, tapped horn for sub duty 40-120 Hz. Still, in my opinion, 2030P can't imagine like dipoles do, some magic is missing.

--
Tuomas

[soongsc]

I basically don't think the open baffles will work as good ad they were meant to.
1. The more interaction among waves really don't work well, no matter what the polar plots tell you. You just have a bunch of waves passing through each other.
2. It's always necessary to keep reflections at low levels below the venue of the original recording. Only this will allow you to hear the acoustics of the venue more clearly.
3. Fast CSD decay will make the speakers disapear. If you use paper coned drivers or any material with high loss. The speakers will disapear.

[454Casull]

Originally Posted by soongsc

I basically don't think the open baffles will work as good ad they were meant to.
1. The more interaction among waves really don't work well, no matter what the polar plots tell you. You just have a bunch of waves passing through each other.
2. It's always necessary to keep reflections at low levels below the venue of the original recording. Only this will allow you to hear the acoustics of the venue more clearly.
3. Fast CSD decay will make the speakers disapear. If you use paper coned drivers or any material with high loss. The speakers will disapear.

1. Moot point. You'll get this with any type of speaker.
2. Can you clarify?
3. I disagree. CSD describes a transducer's tendency to continue to produce sound after the input signal is gone - whether or not this effect is significant has nothing to do with how easily one can discern the location of the speakers. I mean, what does the average CSD show compared to the RT60 of the room? And yet speakers can exhibit vastly different behaviour.

[otto88]

"Fast CSD decay will make the speakers disapear. If you use paper coned drivers or any material with high loss. The speakers will disapear"

How is loss measured; what other materials have high loss?

[soongsc]

Originally Posted by 454Casull

1. Moot point. You'll get this with any type of speaker.
2. Can you clarify?
3. I disagree. CSD describes a transducer's tendency to continue to produce sound after the input signal is gone - whether or not this effect is significant has nothing to do with how easily one can discern the location of the speakers. I mean, what does the average CSD show compared to the RT60 of the room? And yet speakers can exhibit vastly different behaviour.

1. The levels of energy are different. OBs back waves have much higher energy than other types of speakers.
2. When room acoustics are at a level higher than the venue acoustics, it messes up reproduction of the venue acoustics.
3. If the transducer is producing sound after the input signal is gone, you hear the speakers, how can the speakers disappear? Unless it's masked by room acoustics, an issue which I addressed previously.

[soongsc]

Originally Posted by otto88

"Fast CSD decay will make the speakers disapear. If you use paper coned drivers or any material with high loss. The speakers will disapear"

How is loss measured; what other materials have high loss?

You can do a google on the subject.