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Old 11th April 2013, 09:21 PM   #2931
ra7 is offline ra7  United States
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^^Thanks for that. Some of those points I wanted to make myself.

@soundtrackmixer
As soundtrackmixer says, it's relative. $10k for you seems less than some audiophiles spend. $10k for me might be wayyy over the top. And don't forget the knowledge you have gained that allows you to spend only 10k and get the experience you want. How much of that sound will be retained if someone less knowledgeable were to spend the same amount of money on the same gear?

As jcx noted, your dedicated listening room is much larger than the average bedroom in the US. And that costs money. Finally, don't forget the amount of money all of us have sunk in past systems. We didn't get here with our very first system.

All in all, getting the illusion right takes herculean efforts for an average music listener and lots of money as well.
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Old 11th April 2013, 09:28 PM   #2932
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by badman View Post


Here, another brief dose of the attention you're looking for. I'm sure that your phillips freebies with some dynamat and blu tack are top-flight and would beat the stock behringers. Then once you put a nickel on the back of the behringer woofer, it'll be better than summas.

Of course I'm looking to attract attention: I believe that it's a great shame that the audio industry is stuck in a deep rut, barely moving forward on any fronts, over decades -- it needs a good kick in the beside to get some movement happening ...

Think how ridiculous it is that people are using speaker technology that's 60, 70, 80 years old to get optimum sound, like Pano is ....

Yes, the Behringers need major work: I could only tolerate them running for a short period, they suffer from all the same deficiencies as most systems do, but to a lesser degree. For a start, in their raw state they're miles from having a chance of going invisible ...


The message is, has always been, that systems are capable of far more than people would credit as being possible. So, why keep driving cars and never getting out of first gear, if you know how to change gears then you've got a chance to explore a much bigger world ...
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Last edited by fas42; 11th April 2013 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 11th April 2013, 09:39 PM   #2933
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Soundtrackmixer View Post
It will be a LONG time before you see 60fps. The 48fps The Hobbit test prints were pretty much a failure from a technical standpoint, and much more work needs to be done to make it work correctly from a visual standpoint. Maybe Cameron can make it work better than Jackson could.
I mentioned earlier that it was done, decades ago; the health and legal issues put an end to it then, but since one could now experience it totally privately it would thus resolve as a buyer beware scenario ...
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Old 11th April 2013, 09:45 PM   #2934
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Did stumble into the Focal booth. Did not know they did a line of studio monitors. It was, by far, the best sound in show. But the Genelec guys didn't have a great set-up, so it was unfair to them. Genelec monitors all over the show, tho. Seems to be the defacto studio monitor. I don't remember seeing Behringer anywhere.
Haven't heard Focal at all; was generally not impressed by Genelec which I auditioned several times: I managed to blow the left channel of their top of the line model in the demo, was a bit of a gutless wonder ...
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Old 11th April 2013, 10:10 PM   #2935
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Originally Posted by lousymusician View Post
Can I fit all that into the "dedicated" 11 x 14' den that's the only room in the house where I can listen to music without forcing my wife to listen to it too?
Well, that system sits in a 12x15x9ft room, and I have a 55" 3D monitor in there to boot. Eleminate the monitor and I say absolutely yes.

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I don't care so much about movies, will splitting my two-channel budget to cover 7.1 make Graceland sound better?
It strongly depends on your frame of reference, and what better means to you.

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Yes, $10k is less than many have paid for two channels of amplification alone, but it's also more than I paid for either of the automobiles my wife and I commute in. BTW, what did that "free" SIM 3 system cost up front? How can I get that done for free?
Sorry, I am unable to address personal finance and ones personal financial perspective or choices.

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You got a good deal on that Arcam, too. Refurbs are going for $4k on Ebay, list is more like $6k. Either way, expenditures that don't fly around here.
I was lucky. I bought it privately from someone who really wanted seperates. He really wants his receiver back.

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No, I'm not exactly poor. Our household income places us just outside the top 10% nationwide. Our only debt is a mortgage, even after 16 years of child support and putting two kids through the University of California. In my experience it's a pretty select (and generally childless) few that drop $10+k into audio.
Sorry man, but you are not going to get any sympathy from me on this. I am a single father that just put two twin boys through USC and Stanford on MA degrees. The amount I have dropped on HT and mutlichannel music systems has been far in excess of $10K. I know how to save and manage my money, and how to support my audio and video habits at the same time.

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Two channel will continue to be very relevant for those if us who live in houses built before the days of McMansion excess, who mostly listen to music recorded and distributed in stereo, and who can justify two decent channels more easily than they can 7.

Bill
Bill, one mans floor is another ceiling. The problem is I don't want one persons ceiling to define my floor. When it comes to audio and video, I reach upwards. However, I also respect when an individual makes the decision to go nowhere and does not reach anywhere.
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Old 11th April 2013, 10:15 PM   #2936
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
I mentioned earlier that it was done, decades ago; the health and legal issues put an end to it then, but since one could now experience it totally privately it would thus resolve as a buyer beware scenario ...
What the hell are you talking about? When a person steps into a theater, they have no legal precedent to complain or sue about anything they see or hear. Health reasons are a personal thing, not a technical thing. You cannot sue anyone just because your eyes don't allow you to see color correctly, see 3D, or not get dizzy or nauseated by a frame rate.
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Old 11th April 2013, 10:18 PM   #2937
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Haven't heard Focal at all; was generally not impressed by Genelec which I auditioned several times: I managed to blow the left channel of their top of the line model in the demo, was a bit of a gutless wonder ...
If you were able to blow a channel, it had nothing to do with the speaker itself. There was either a problem with the signal chain, or you were just abusing the speaker. Genelec speakers have a good reputation in the Hollywood sound and picture community, and it did not get that reputation by blowing speakers.
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Old 11th April 2013, 10:29 PM   #2938
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Soundtrackmixer View Post
Genelec speakers have a good reputation in the Hollywood sound and picture community, and it did not get that reputation by blowing speakers.
(This was in the demo room of one of the biggest musicians's shops in Sydney, using their source chain. The overload LED was flickering away fairly constantly but the chappie doing the demo didn't seem concerned; then, the left channel just died with no signs of anything happening, the fellow spent about 10 minutes resetting, changing leads, swapping channels ... the speaker was dead, probably had blown an internal fuse.

Not a good look for a $2000 monitor ...)


Edit: can all of that!! My brain glitched, the brand that croaked was Mackie, not Genelec, apologies to all ...
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Old 11th April 2013, 10:40 PM   #2939
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Soundtrackmixer View Post
What the hell are you talking about? When a person steps into a theater, they have no legal precedent to complain or sue about anything they see or hear.
This was a situation where the realism of the image was convincing enough that it triggered the body's natural body responses to the situation, it was beyond the rational, thinking part of the brain's control. So, show something scary where the mind and body goes into a reflex "fight or flight" mode, and a person with a weak heart could suffer from an attack. The people who developed the technology didn't abandon it lightly, they ran demos with test audiences, and it became very clear that they had a major problem ...
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Old 11th April 2013, 11:15 PM   #2940
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Now, if I really wanted to frighten the neighbours, this would be a decent one to play with: Genelec 1036A - Extremely Powerful Monitor System for Large Rooms. There would be a lot of potential here to do "Better Than Live" ...
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Last edited by fas42; 11th April 2013 at 11:28 PM.
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