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Old 19th February 2013, 11:00 AM   #281
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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well, if you can live without the finer audiophile textures, imaging, etc...even a Cerwin speaker and amp could make many other speakers sound like a joke, and even sound surpricingly smooth, with tons of power and headroom

that said, everything it misses is for the most what I want to hear, and do hear every day
but many wont, or cant, and thats a fact

rewievs, thats just entertainment, fun to read, and can be a 'pointer', but other than that nothing
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Old 19th February 2013, 11:02 AM   #282
6.283 is offline 6.283  Germany
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
If you want "GPS" imaging then I suspect some type of direct radiator speaker like the the Summa or Abby would come out on top. Problem is, I have never been to a live classical concert where I hear the kind of localization that such speakers produce. I've never understood why audiophiles place such high regard on such precise imaging. It is totally artificial. A sense of 3 dimensionality and somewhat diffuse sound field is more realistic, IMO.

+1
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Old 19th February 2013, 11:16 AM   #283
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Imaging is a very interesting topic. I have gone through stages where imaging is really impressive, but you don't feel the emotion conveyed by the performer.
I know exactly what you try yo say
perfect describtion, spot on

I find it better to focus on good tonality

but you are right if you say a good listening position feels pointlessly boring without good imaging
if you want to fake a concert experience, imaging is the key

but if its just to hear music or listen to certain musicians, tonality, pace, rythm, timing etc, are my priority...imaging comes last on my list

but as said, perfect and fixed listening position becomes pointless without good precise imaging, size, width, height, all that stuff
every musician should be placed properly, and stay there
unfortunately not all recordings are good
jazz recordings are for the most the only proper ones
it easily becomes a lost game
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Old 19th February 2013, 02:14 PM   #284
Davey is offline Davey  United States
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+2 on John's comment.

The way I think about (or describe it) is "precise" imaging versus "realistic" imaging. I'd rather have the latter and not the former.
But even still, imaging is down on my priority list relative to other factors of how a speaker system sounds.

Cheers,

Dave.
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Old 19th February 2013, 02:19 PM   #285
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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We dont listen to live music on our playback systems, we listen to recordings of live music , imaging and focus is very important and not difficult to achieve ...
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Old 19th February 2013, 03:03 PM   #286
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
If you want "GPS" imaging then I suspect some type of direct radiator speaker like the the Summa or Abby would come out on top. Problem is, I have never been to a live classical concert where I hear the kind of localization that such speakers produce. I've never understood why audiophiles place such high regard on such precise imaging. It is totally artificial. A sense of 3 dimensionality and somewhat diffuse sound field is more realistic, IMO.
+1

I think I've mentione before the time I attended a symphony+choir performance where they "augmented" the choir . . . my first "clue" was that I could "localize" instruments in the back of the orchestra (from bleed to the choir mikes). Not "natural" . . .
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Old 19th February 2013, 03:07 PM   #287
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We dont listen to live music on our playback systems, we listen to recordings of live music , imaging and focus is very important and not difficult to achieve ...
Wow, are you sure?

I've tried for some time to get the music to leave the speakers and hang in free space. Things like cymbals and hi-hats almost make it, but they're still locatable to exactly where the speakers are, with some smudge of them across the middle.

How did you get around this?
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Old 19th February 2013, 03:27 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
If you want "GPS" imaging then I suspect some type of direct radiator speaker like the the Summa or Abby would come out on top. Problem is, I have never been to a live classical concert where I hear the kind of localization that such speakers produce. I've never understood why audiophiles place such high regard on such precise imaging. It is totally artificial. A sense of 3 dimensionality and somewhat diffuse sound field is more realistic, IMO.
Here is the rub. A recording taken from microphones will have imaging, it is the nature of recording. The live experience is another animal altogether, as you are listening to more of the room itself than any direct output of the instrument(even sitting up close to the instrument you are still hearing a floor bounce). Audiophiles love precise imaging because they know it was recorded to get that effect. It is not really artificial(not made up), it is the direct capture of the microphones.

Comparing a recording to a live event is like comparing apples and peaches.
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Old 19th February 2013, 03:28 PM   #289
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Wow, are you sure?

I've tried for some time to get the music to leave the speakers and hang in free space. Things like cymbals and hi-hats almost make it, but they're still locatable to exactly where the speakers are, with some smudge of them across the middle.

How did you get around this?
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Old 19th February 2013, 03:59 PM   #290
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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.... but they're still locatable to exactly where the speakers are...
somethimes it does happen that an instrument actually is located correctly where the speaker are...accidentally

what can be really annoying is if a drummer has some of his sound(drums) in one side(channel), and other of his drum sound or cymbals in other side(channel)

then he is impossible to place correctly in the 'sound picture'

what also tend to be annoying is when a lead singer is positioned too much off middle
tend to tip the balance
we seem to expect the lead man is in the middle
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