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Old 18th February 2013, 09:09 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
Whatever was on display in the music store. Not a clue if whoever set them up did so correctly. I am not discounting price/performance. That is what Behringer does. HI-Fi is not what they do. I am not berating them at all. They now what their marker is, and build to that market. They don't build speakers for me.
Fair enough, tah.
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Old 19th February 2013, 12:42 AM   #272
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I'm looking forward to another test done in a room with the following speakers:

1) Behringer B2031A/P (for reference)
2) IMP
3) GedLee Abbey
4) Alpha-12 Zephyr (or similar)
5) NaO Note 2 RS

All of which espouse different directivity principles and are, or are near, the state of the art.
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Old 19th February 2013, 04:06 AM   #273
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Originally Posted by greenm01 View Post
So take a crappy cheapo amp out of the Behringer and replace the expensive boutique amps powering the Orion? bah!

Any power amplifier operating within it's design limits will sound readily transparent. The weak link will always be the loudspeaker+room system.
Although your comment about the weak link is true, different amplifiers with everything else the same will most likely make a difference, and it can usually be explained through the data with further confirmation after a problem fixed. I have listened to the Behringer speakers, my impression was the amplifiers are really a big issue.
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Old 19th February 2013, 04:41 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by 454Casull View Post
I'm looking forward to another test done in a room with the following speakers:

1) Behringer B2031A/P (for reference)
2) IMP
3) GedLee Abbey
4) Alpha-12 Zephyr (or similar)
5) NaO Note 2 RS

All of which espouse different directivity principles and are, or are near, the state of the art.
Wow that would be most interesting !
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Old 19th February 2013, 05:00 AM   #275
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Originally Posted by gainphile View Post
Apparently the original link to the article is dead. Here it is revived
SLReport10.05

If there were better effort than these guys then let's hear it
I looked at the report and have the following thoughts:
1. Audience should have understanding of the scoring criteria before hand, but not score during the listening session. Only after all listening for one system for which should be unknown, is finished, and an overall impression is formed.
2. Audience should be allowed more selection of music of their preference, each of which may be different, let them bring their own music if they want.
3. Music should really consist of a great variation and types.
4. The results do not really apply to any individual equipment, but the whole setup. For example, the DCX2496 has it's own sonic characteristics, when mixed with the characteristics of other devices, you never know what the result will be.
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Old 19th February 2013, 05:50 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Hi John

I've heard you say this before and I'll take your word for it, but I cannot see any reason that it should be so. Where is the listening position? Thats not clear to me. On-axis of one I would guess. I would guess a marked increase in spaciosness with a corresponding decrease in imaging.
I don't have four Summas, so can't comment on imaging.
A Summa bipole sounds a bit more 'spacious' than a monopole Summa though. Big investment for limited returns though.
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Old 19th February 2013, 10:42 AM   #277
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If you want "GPS" imaging then I suspect some type of direct radiator speaker like the the Summa or Abby would come out on top. Problem is, I have never been to a live classical concert where I hear the kind of localization that such speakers produce. I've never understood why audiophiles place such high regard on such precise imaging. It is totally artificial. A sense of 3 dimensionality and somewhat diffuse sound field is more realistic, IMO.
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Old 19th February 2013, 10:48 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
If you want "GPS" imaging then I suspect some type of direct radiator speaker like the the Summa or Abby would come out on top. Problem is, I have never been to a live classical concert where I hear the kind of localization that such speakers produce. I've never understood why audiophiles place such high regard on such precise imaging. It is totally artificial. A sense of 3 dimensionality and somewhat diffuse sound field is more realistic, IMO.
You want to get rid of the one thing 2-speaker stereo is good at - precise imaging Is it good at delivering realistic spaciousness? Not so much. For realistic spaciousness reflections from other angles than 30 are needed.
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Old 19th February 2013, 10:52 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
If memory serves me right they had them too close to the behringers and other items in the room , dipoles have proximity issues , objects in their nearfield will cause issues and I'm no Orion fan bwoy, IMO they are not a properly executed design, but they were at a disadvantage due to a flawed setup ..
I'm not so sure about that. The AES report looks valid to me. Have you read it?

Also, have you ever seen a picture of SL's living room? I don't believe the testing was beyond a "normal" setup in a typical living roon. Regardless, SL used a similar setup to compare the Behringer himself.
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Old 19th February 2013, 10:57 AM   #280
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I have consistently found that relying on reflections to create spaciousness perception presents impressive but false presentation.

Imaging is a very interesting topic. I have gone through stages where imaging is really impressive, but you don't feel the emotion conveyed by the performer. It is really hard to describe, and the solution was actually fixing the electronics rather than the speakers.

I think listening tests should have the speakers in the exact same location, which means moving one set away while listening to the other, simply because location relates with reflection differences and room mode difference.
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Last edited by soongsc; 19th February 2013 at 11:02 AM.
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