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Old 10th March 2013, 08:07 AM   #1591
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Originally Posted by gainphile View Post
Most interesting. Having built the econowaves I did try extreme toe-in as presrcibed by many. But found out that normal triangle works best. I thought it was because econowave does not have that frequency response dip. But never tried a 'toe-out'. Will do !
You'll need to equalize the response though.
Experiment with the amount of toe-out too.
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Old 10th March 2013, 09:02 AM   #1592
Omholt is offline Omholt  Norway
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Here's a chart that shows the sensitivity and SPL of CBT36. It get's lower in the treble. I believe this is sufficient for most homes. I don't experience any straining as Pano mentioned.
The new CBT36XL will obvioulsy be able to play much louder.

Also attached polar of a smaller prototype as well as a figure that shows the horizontal dispersion. Seems like some missed that earlier. I cannot speak for the Monte Kay's laying CBT center and his mesasurements, but this is what Don Keele has measured.

I hope Don will soon be able to publish polars of the CBT36 and CBT36XL which will have controlled directivity lower in frequency then the prototype.
Attached Images
File Type: png Sensitivy and Max SPL.png (106.8 KB, 279 views)
File Type: png Polarrespons av prototype.png (543.3 KB, 270 views)
File Type: jpg prototype.jpg (22.6 KB, 258 views)
File Type: jpg fig horisontalt.jpg (10.0 KB, 209 views)

Last edited by Omholt; 10th March 2013 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 10th March 2013, 11:08 AM   #1593
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Interesting observation - when the contra-lateral reflection is absorbed, a huge amount of depth is gone. This somewhat baffled my because the level of this reflection is way down.
How did you achieve this without also absorbing the ipsilateral reflection from the principal speaker ? Don't they originate from almost the same location on the wall.
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Old 10th March 2013, 11:19 AM   #1594
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
I've tried all sorts of speakers with very different directivity. High directivity speakers in low reflection environments always create a very narrow, pin-point stage without any depth. The higher the directivity, the closer the sound stage. The closest image came from a 8" full range driver. It was floating in front of the speaker plane, with phantom sources only an arm's length away.
This is exactly my experience as well. Note that this is the effect of frequencies above about 1kHz. Speakers having high directivity in this freq range aimed towards the listener creates very unnatural auditory scenes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
Certain reflection patterns add a sense of real depth.
It all started by placing a second pair of speakers at 60 fed by the stereo signal. It added spaciousness and depth.
Then I tried pointing speakers to the side wall and it had the same effect. I could create that sensation with nearly all types of speakers. Even the 8" full range speaker will perform like this if the speakers are toed-out.

Have you tried this simple configuration of adding extra speakers ? The extra speakers are at about 55 deg, which according to Ando creates small IACC which is preferable.

G = gauche
D = droit

Click the image to open in full size.


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Old 10th March 2013, 01:36 PM   #1595
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Originally Posted by Elias View Post
How did you achieve this without also absorbing the ipsilateral reflection from the principal speaker ? Don't they originate from almost the same location on the wall.
They are about 80cm apart.
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Old 10th March 2013, 05:05 PM   #1596
lolo is offline lolo  France
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
I was wondering if anyone here wanted to do some testing. I could easily make some test tones. If we can figure out what's needed (that can evolve, if necessary) then I'm happy to make the tones and post them here. Or better yet, in a new thread.
I tried this today without any results..

Time intensity trading | Auditory Neuroscience

I just switched the tweeter on/off but I don't think the test tone freq goes high enough.
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Old 10th March 2013, 05:10 PM   #1597
lolo is offline lolo  France
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Originally Posted by Omholt View Post
I heard MBL 101. A few years ago, so don't know if it was the MKII version or an earlier one.
There's definetly something wrong with the concept if you want accuracy and a precise image in a small bounded space. And that's very understandable from what we know about acoustics. I'm not arguing about other preferences.


In terms of still hearing the direct signal you're right, but high gain specular energy still greatly has an effect on the sound quality. There's a difference there.
I think the problem with omni's bad rep comes with the way they are used. My limited experience makes me think you want to place them far, veeeeery far from boundaries, they can then sound gorgeous, it implies huge rooms for a big system like MBL.
If not, yes, huge sound from the reflexions, some like it and some don't.
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Old 10th March 2013, 05:12 PM   #1598
lolo is offline lolo  France
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Originally Posted by vacuphile View Post
The other solution is to create loudspeakers that act as a point source, like the MBL's. This way, it is possible to have a very wide sweet spot, basically filling most of the room. Linkwitz's Pluto goes some way towards this.
or Watkinson's beautiful Cabar. Never seen or heard one.
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Old 10th March 2013, 06:50 PM   #1599
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by Omholt View Post
Earl,
How low in frequency would a 18" waveguide have controlled directivity to?
The width (if thats what you mean) of a waveguiode is a little ambiguous if it has a mouth flare as all of mine do. The Summa waveguide is 18" in diameter with the mouth flare, but only 15" if you consider where it would terminate in the baffle without the flare. It does well down to about 1 kHz, so an 18" might go down to 800 Hz.

Last edited by gedlee; 10th March 2013 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 10th March 2013, 06:59 PM   #1600
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by Omholt View Post
The new CBT36XL will obvioulsy be able to play much louder.
Since the XL has the same tweeters and the MaxSPL limit is due to the tweeters, I don't think that it will have more MaxSPL.
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