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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 8th March 2013, 10:54 PM   #1531
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Better to hear it.
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Old 8th March 2013, 10:56 PM   #1532
FrankWW is offline FrankWW  Canada
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Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
So Pano,
You are saying that a directional device, a horn lens was actually omnidirectional in its polar response. Sounds like a it was not directional at all, something smells funny here when you say that, if it doesn't follow any rules of a waveguide to begin with.
Ask about the setup and the room.
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Old 8th March 2013, 11:17 PM   #1533
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Pano,
As FrankWW just suggested please describe the setup and room conditions to achieve this result. I am having a very hard time fathoming how it is possible with the on axis response from any and all horns I have ever encountered. I know the Iwata has an unusual outer contour but that shouldn't invalidate waveguide function and compression driver on axis response with rising frequency. If that be the case why haven't you ditched the Altec's and replaced them with the Iwata horns, sounds like audio heaven to me!
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Old 8th March 2013, 11:42 PM   #1534
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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It's pleasing to see that Pano has experienced this, always good to encounter parallel occurrences ...

As he stated, it's a rare thing to have happen, because everything has to be "right". So far I've come across only a handful of people who understand what it's like ... as he says, it's spooky!! First time I got it it was a big shock, totally unexpected ... and I've been chasing it ever since ...

Big point: doesn't need horns, or directional sound, and such things. The absolutely essential requirement is super clean sound, because the ear/brain doesn't get fooled easily; efficient horns are an easier way to getting that quality of sound from the drivers, but I've done it with absolutely standard, boring boxes. Trouble is, the slightest problem with the quality of the playback and the "mirage" collapses, the sound drops back into the speakers, and it just becomes another hifi system ...

Frank
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Old 9th March 2013, 01:48 AM   #1535
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
If that be the case why haven't you ditched the Altec's and replaced them with the Iwata horns,
Because I've heard the Altec multi-cells do it too, when the planets align. Have also heard big coax on open baffle do it.

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First time I got it it was a big shock, totally unexpected ... and I've been chasing it ever since ...
Yep, that's exactly my experience and pursuit.
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..sounds like audio heaven to me!
Me too, that's why I've been chasing it.

The rooms I've heard it in were mostly of good size, but not huge. Good acoustics and room treatment. I'm sure that helped. I'll try to describe more later, gotta run right now, another early morning gig tomorrow.
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Old 9th March 2013, 02:11 AM   #1536
GM is offline GM  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
The VOTT may image very well. And I am not sure how much directivity effect the small waveguide would actually have over a direct radiating 15" speaker. I'd like to actually see some data.
FWIW, Altec measurements from many moons ago.

GM
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Old 9th March 2013, 02:19 AM   #1537
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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Pano and Frank, are you talking about a mono signal and only one speaker active as in Steven's example? i'm with Steven, for that to happen (lets say I believe it can happen) the horn cannot be doing a very good job of being a lense and the room must be very reverberant
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Old 9th March 2013, 04:13 AM   #1538
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Did ever anyone of your customers (or your boss, if applicable) ask you to get/produce the imaging of a concert when listened to with closed eyes?
I would have to say to this question, no. Since this is my goal in the first place, I don't think they have to.

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Or asked another way: Was there ever someone who asked for the imaging to be more blurred in the final product?
This is a definate no. My customers are looking for the best audio presentation they can get for their money.

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I just want to know if this differentiation is ever an issue in the marketplace or solely discussed in the world of HiFi enthusiasts.

Rudolf
I am going to say neither. I tailor my microphone set up to the acoustics of the hall. If the hall is acoustically excellent, then I use fewer microphones with a less directional pattern. If the acoustics are not so great, I closer microphone positioning, more of them with a tighter pickup pattern, and try to avoid the acoustics of the hall as much as I can. There is no one formula for any hall, they all require a multi-position points to capture the best out of the orchestra and the room itself. The content itself(the music) also play a huge role. Different microphone techniques will give different results for different music, in different halls. No one size fits all in recording techniques.
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Last edited by Soundtrackmixer; 9th March 2013 at 04:21 AM.
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Old 9th March 2013, 04:20 AM   #1539
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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No, this is stereo reproduction, both speakers working. And the track can be a conventional stereo recording, or true mono - it works in both cases. The key seems to be achieving below a certain level of distortion in the playback, at the point where the drivers couple to the air; the drivers don't have to be anything special in of themselves, but most importantly the treble has to be got right. Everything I've got this on, up to before the current unit, was standard 2 way, fabric and the like dome tweeters.

One thing that stands out, is that the room itself is unimportant: 3 different rooms, different shapes, heights; no treatment, no special placement ...

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 9th March 2013 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 9th March 2013, 10:33 AM   #1540
lolo is offline lolo  France
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Originally Posted by Soundtrackmixer View Post

I am going to say neither. I tailor my microphone set up to the acoustics of the hall. If the hall is acoustically excellent, then I use fewer microphones with a less directional pattern. If the acoustics are not so great, I closer microphone positioning, more of them with a tighter pickup pattern, and try to avoid the acoustics of the hall as much as I can. There is no one formula for any hall, they all require a multi-position points to capture the best out of the orchestra and the room itself. The content itself(the music) also play a huge role. Different microphone techniques will give different results for different music, in different halls. No one size fits all in recording techniques.
How far do you set them in the hall, and how few microphones do you use?
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