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Old 20th November 2010, 09:47 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Eric Weitzman View Post
For those who haven't actually read the statement of the test goals and/or the results, the test was set up to evaluate the speakers ability to create a plausible auditory scene. That was all. See here: http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/SLC.htm. As gedlee noted earlier in this thread, the results were statistically insignificant and seemingly David Clark agreed. So there aren't too many conclusions one can draw from it. gainphile's title for this thread is kind of misleading.
But this is the point. Why didn't the dipoles "blow away" the bookshelf loudspeakers on terms of creating plausible auditory scene? Don't get me wrong as all my speakers are dipoles too (even my bookshelves). But if a study told me that my my god did not exist, I better check and investigate. That's what the "Y" is for in DIY. At the moment I'm building the CD Box speakers just to see.

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An anecdote: A friend brought his Mackie 624 monitors over to my place a few years ago. These were highly regarded for their accurate and clean sound. We listened to these first. They were impressive, for their performance, size and price. Sound familiar so far? Then we turned on the Orions. Game over: the sound from the monitors seemed like a caricature of the music from the Orions. He now has Orions.
Yes but there are Orion owners convinced enough to buy Gedlee speakers. This is not interesting enough to investigate?

Again the only way is to build one and listen
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Old 20th November 2010, 09:53 PM   #102
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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Originally Posted by gainphile View Post
But this is the point. Why didn't the dipoles "blow away" the bookshelf loudspeakers on terms of creating plausible auditory scene? Don't get me wrong as all my speakers are dipoles too (even my bookshelves). But if a study told me that my my god did not exist, I better check and investigate. That's what the "Y" is for in DIY. At the moment I'm building the CD Box speakers just to see.
If you have done enough controlled listening tests you would know the answer. Its a very simple one!

When you remove imagination/expectation bias. The differences across the board are never going to produce anything that "Blows Away" anything else unless one product had major flaws.

There is a reason the majority of audiophiles refuse to do the tests. It takes away the most important part of their hobby, expectation and imagination is very much the cornerstone of those deeply involved. That isnt a bad thing either, we experience and enjoy placebo induced conclusions 100 times a day. Its simply human nature!
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Old 20th November 2010, 10:15 PM   #103
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by gainphile View Post
But this is the point. Why didn't the dipoles "blow away" the bookshelf loudspeakers on terms of creating plausible auditory scene? Don't get me wrong as all my speakers are dipoles too (even my bookshelves). But if a study told me that my my god did not exist, I better check and investigate. That's what the "Y" is for in DIY. At the moment I'm building the CD Box speakers just to see.



Yes but there are Orion owners convinced enough to buy Gedlee speakers. This is not interesting enough to investigate?

Again the only way is to build one and listen

They are both reasonably wide dispersion designs that are fairly uniform.. the design that was wider was preferred - despite combing effects and non-uniformity.

I suspect that those Orion owners that subsequently purchased Gedlee kits did so for somewhat different reasons than their capability to present an "auditory scene".
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Old 20th November 2010, 11:05 PM   #104
gedlee is online now gedlee  United States
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I suspect that those Orion owners that subsequently purchased Gedlee kits did so for somewhat different reasons than their capability to present an "auditory scene".
Talk about "garbage".
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Old 20th November 2010, 11:21 PM   #105
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Talk about "garbage".
..I think not.

btw, as is often the case, I think you have misunderstood my post.

I think that their preference was not because of auditory scene - because I think they are relatively complementary in that regard. Rather I believe that there were *other* compelling reasons for their preference.

As I posted in your own forum.. nycavsr2000 specifically commented on his preference in post 77 here:

NaO Note preview

Btw, If I'm wrong - please provide some evidence of this. I'm courtesy enough to actually *explain* my objection.. but perhaps you are "above" that.
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Old 20th November 2010, 11:24 PM   #106
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Orions are garbage? Really?

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Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Talk about "garbage".
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Old 20th November 2010, 11:35 PM   #107
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Well, on a lighter note.. I think that the IMP is closer to a bipole DCM TW than a 901. And is that the same Steve Eberbach, in the crowd, that designed the Time Windows?

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Old 21st November 2010, 12:18 AM   #108
djn is offline djn  United States
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Talk about "garbage".
Now that's the way to attract new customers.
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Old 21st November 2010, 12:23 AM   #109
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Well, on a lighter note.. I think that the IMP is closer to a bipole DCM TW than a 901. And is that the same Steve Eberbach, in the crowd, that designed the Time Windows?
Didn't they say imp had drivers on all 4 faces? Time windows had drivers on 2 splayed faces facing forward, EPI miniTower & Tower had drivers on all 4 faces.

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Old 21st November 2010, 12:59 AM   #110
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Yes the TW were only forward facing. Maybe I should have said "bipole version of" instead. The difference in the design is really the dual angled drivers. The Allison Model Ones were similar. I have a pair of Time Windows and in a small room, they create a truly spacious and large sound. Ive been meaning to try some single drivers in that configuration to see if they can sound similar.

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