Linkwitz Orions beaten by Behringer.... what!!? - Page 101 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st March 2013, 02:16 PM   #1001
gedlee is online now gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolo View Post
How many WG/Horns owners go often to the concert hall?
The "classical" music bias of this group is very evident. In the marketplace "classical" music is not even a consideration (in terms of sales volume of software).

What is it about a WG that makes it incapable of good sound reproduction regardless of the genre?
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2013, 02:23 PM   #1002
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
Pano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Milliways
Blog Entries: 4
Beats me. I think they work very well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2013, 02:24 PM   #1003
lolo is offline lolo  France
diyAudio Member
 
lolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: somewhere by the border..
.....so is the HT bias for the WG group? Sure, there is more money and more people there.. Are you saying then we should not receive any attention?
The fact is, correctly set and well executed dipoles reproduce real acoustic spaces very well. I am not saying the WG are incapable in that respect, but I do have a bias towards image broadening, yes, because that's exactly what a hall does.
I was just asking a question. Out of curiosity, do you yourself attend unamplified music concerts?

Last edited by lolo; 1st March 2013 at 02:27 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2013, 02:24 PM   #1004
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Constant directivity (CD) does this. It has flat power and flat response along any axis. No direct radiating tweeter does this, so adding a second one might seem to help, except that it has the same problem as the first one so it really doesn't as John said.

I have always thought that SL claim that CD was desirable - except that his speakers aren't CD.
Quite true . . . ORION manages to be "CD" only up to 1000-1200 Hz, after which . . . tweeter. Same with Pluto and LX521, except the loss of CD happens higher, at perhaps 3-4 kHz, after which . . . beaming and tweeter.

This is, of course, far better than most supposedly "controlled directivity" speakers accomplish . . .
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2013, 02:30 PM   #1005
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
Pano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Milliways
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolo View Post
Out of curiosity, do you yourself attend unamplified music concerts?
I do. In fact I shun the amplified concerts. I don't live in a major city, but we have a lot of good music and festivals here, un-amplified. The owners of horn systems I know tend to be more frequent acoustic concert goers than other speaker owners.
__________________
Take the Speaker Voltage Test!
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2013, 02:38 PM   #1006
gedlee is online now gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
I don't want to put words in Doc Geddes mouth, but doubt that he (or other strict objectivists) do either. Neither do I, although I'd take it if I could get it.

Earl Geddes has achieved the results he desires using a strictly technical, objective approach. The results are good - I've heard them. But I believe that some of us achieve results just as good with other approaches. Use the tools you have.

I do find that the more technically accurate the subjective results, the better it sounds - up to a point. But there comes a point where the technical goals are determined by what sounds right or accurate. Otherwise, what's the point?

Also, let us not forget that the vast majority of listeners don't give a hoot whether it's accurate or not - they just want it to sound good. Usually, that means a lot of bass.
Agreed - mostly - I have not found the point where the measurements alone do not tell me what I want to know.

But sure, its possible to do a good design by just listening, or any other technique for that matter, but based on the experience of doing this for some 45 years, it is highly unlikely. Like the proverbial monkey on a typewriter. The purely objective approach is fast because it is completely reliable (actually there are some situations where one even has to be cautious about the measurements. Acoustic measurements can be very tricky. So when I say "measurements" I mean quality ones.)
To me this statement "I do find that the more technically accurate the subjective results" is the key because this is exactly what I have found as well. Maybe "accuracy" is not so easy to define in this context, but objectively what is NOT accurate is pretty easy to define - non-flat frequency response is NOT accurate. A non-smooth DI is NOT accurate because then each reflection will have a different tone color, how could that be accurate?
When talking about directivity it becomes more difficult because we do have to consider psychoacoustics. But the essential things are know for the most part. Like the fact that there is a tradeoff between solid imaging and good spaciousness when discussing early reflections - even Blauert agrees with this. If spaciousness is everything to you then you will like a wide directivity, but you will give up good imaging as a result. If classical music is your choice then this is a good choice because a stage in a large venue has very little solid imaging. But a solo vocalist on a jazz recording is going to be smeared with the piano player. There are ways to achieve both, but that is another discussion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2013, 02:41 PM   #1007
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
The owners of horn systems I know tend to be more frequent acoustic concert goers than other speaker owners.
Ahem.
__________________
You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.- Wilford Brimley
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2013, 02:45 PM   #1008
gedlee is online now gedlee  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Novi, Michigan
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolo View Post
.....so is the HT bias for the WG group? Sure, there is more money and more people there.. Are you saying then we should not receive any attention?
The fact is, correctly set and well executed dipoles reproduce real acoustic spaces very well. I am not saying the WG are incapable in that respect, but I do have a bias towards image broadening, yes, because that's exactly what a hall does.
I was just asking a question. Out of curiosity, do you yourself attend unamplified music concerts?
Yes, I do, quite often really. I live just a few miles form the University of Michigan which has a well regarded School of Music. I go to recitals, which are often small rooms. Next week I will see "The Rites of Spring" at Hill Auditorium. So you are way off the mark when you suggest that I don't go to passive music venues. But I do not listen to much classical music at home, it is not m preference. I don't have a "preference" really, my listening is quite eclectic. I like some of my son's Rap, Eminem is awesome. My favorite would have to be Linda Ronstadt as she has done some incredible work in her lifetime.

And I have a strong bias for good imaging and great dynamics.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2013, 02:46 PM   #1009
diyAudio Member
 
Melo theory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Gulfport fl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gedlee View Post
Constant directivity (CD) does this. It has flat power and flat response along any axis. No direct radiating tweeter does this, so adding a second one might seem to help, except that it has the same problem as the first one so it really doesn't as John said.

I have always thought that SL claim that CD was desirable - except that his speakers aren't CD.
So, there is flat power response behind the speaker? I would think that there is more energy at frequencies below Baffle step.
__________________
I LIKE YOU
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2013, 02:54 PM   #1010
dewardh is offline dewardh  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Beats me. I think they work very well.
They can, in many circumstances (the more "anechoic" the better). They are, as Earl notes, probably just what you want for Gaga and Beiber (edit to include Eminem ) and Argo. For experiencing music that is normally listened to through loudspeakers (even in "live" performance) they do, or at least can, work well.

But they are also, as lolo notes, less satisfactory for "reproducing" the overall "feel" of a live acoustic performance in many "home" environments, since their "controlled" directivity is typically far from "constant", and they tend not to take advantage of the reflected sound field in a way that enhances the illusion of "being there" in an actual concert hall.

Pick your poison, and all that . . .

Last edited by dewardh; 1st March 2013 at 03:00 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB Linkwitz Orions jrling Swap Meet 0 13th March 2010 05:26 PM
Finally finished my orions srfranci Multi-Way 5 24th July 2009 11:29 AM
My week with the Orions, or 'why do we bother' cuibono Multi-Way 56 26th October 2008 12:51 AM
Can the Dynaudio C1 be beaten by a DIY design obiwan Multi-Way 16 22nd July 2007 10:19 AM
How hard to clone the Orions? Chaucer Multi-Way 46 8th July 2005 02:01 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:14 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2