Fair enough, no worries ...
Edit: BTW, does that mean that Pano shouldn't be taken too seriously too, or is it okay that he uses a man-sized speaker to do the job ...
,Cheers,
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And, an extra little joke is that that is one of my other Round Tuit projects. If you care to check back when I first joined here I kicked off talking about the very thing, I have a pair here that I'm in the process of deconstructing.Seeing the title of this thread it would have been a more obvious choice to try to achieve audio nirvana with the Behringer speakers
I like the animal, I spent a day doing the rounds of all the pro shops having a listen to everything I could lay my hands on, and it easily stood out as being the best value for money, by a mile.
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I didn't want to imply it doesn't work. I know it can work exceptionally well if there's a good correlation between the general HRTFs used and your own HRTFs.
Here, another brief dose of the attention you're looking for. I'm sure that your phillips freebies with some dynamat and blu tack are top-flight and would beat the stock behringers. Then once you put a nickel on the back of the behringer woofer, it'll be better than summas.
Pano, I am not talking visuals at all. I am talking about the sound of being in a live concert hall or performance space with a live audience not visuals.
You can pretty much forget fresh 70mm prints, there are so few 70mm projectors in theaters it is not worth the cost of the prints. It will be a LONG time before you see 60fps. The 48fps The Hobbit test prints were pretty much a failure from a technical standpoint, and much more work needs to be done to make it work correctly from a visual standpoint. Maybe Cameron can make it work better than Jackson could.
It is not that odd at all. You want the front highs to be vague, they are not carrying the dominate energy of the mix. They are only carrying enough steered information to give the frontal soundstage a sense of height, and that is it.
Yes, I know. I was an analogy, in case you missed that.
A rather good one too, if I do say so myself.Last day of NAB show, didn't spend much time on the floor. Everyone seems tired and hung-over. Spent most of the morning just checking out the booth babes.
Did stumble into the Focal booth. Did not know they did a line of studio monitors. It was, by far, the best sound in show. But the Genelec guys didn't have a great set-up, so it was unfair to them. Genelec monitors all over the show, tho. Seems to be the defacto studio monitor. I don't remember seeing Behringer anywhere.
Off to Palm Springs for a few days of R&R.
It worked very well some of the time. If you turned your head to look at a side speaker, the illusion collapsed. No head tracking, of course. It took a few moments to get the illusion back. Also, movie dialog stayed between my ears. Effects and LFE did detach well into space. I'm just amazed that the generic HRTF worked that well. I've tried doing that and never gotten anywhere near what the DTS system did.
I was with 2 coworkers and their experience was almost identical to mine.
Can I fit all that into the "dedicated" 11 x 14' den that's the only room in the house where I can listen to music without forcing my wife to listen to it too?
I don't care so much about movies, will splitting my two-channel budget to cover 7.1 make Graceland sound better?
Yes, $10k is less than many have paid for two channels of amplification alone, but it's also more than I paid for either of the automobiles my wife and I commute in. BTW, what did that "free" SIM 3 system cost up front? How can I get that done for free?
You got a good deal on that Arcam, too. Refurbs are going for $4k on Ebay, list is more like $6k. Either way, expenditures that don't fly around here.
No, I'm not exactly poor. Our household income places us just outside the top 10% nationwide. Our only debt is a mortgage, even after 16 years of child support and putting two kids through the University of California. In my experience it's a pretty select (and generally childless) few that drop $10+k into audio.
Two channel will continue to be very relevant for those if us who live in houses built before the days of McMansion excess, who mostly listen to music recorded and distributed in stereo, and who can justify two decent channels more easily than they can 7.
Bill
^^Thanks for that. Some of those points I wanted to make myself.
@soundtrackmixer
As soundtrackmixer says, it's relative. $10k for you seems less than some audiophiles spend. $10k for me might be wayyy over the top. And don't forget the knowledge you have gained that allows you to spend only 10k and get the experience you want. How much of that sound will be retained if someone less knowledgeable were to spend the same amount of money on the same gear?
As jcx noted, your dedicated listening room is much larger than the average bedroom in the US. And that costs money. Finally, don't forget the amount of money all of us have sunk in past systems. We didn't get here with our very first system.
All in all, getting the illusion right takes herculean efforts for an average music listener and lots of money as well.
@soundtrackmixer
As soundtrackmixer says, it's relative. $10k for you seems less than some audiophiles spend. $10k for me might be wayyy over the top. And don't forget the knowledge you have gained that allows you to spend only 10k and get the experience you want. How much of that sound will be retained if someone less knowledgeable were to spend the same amount of money on the same gear?
As jcx noted, your dedicated listening room is much larger than the average bedroom in the US. And that costs money. Finally, don't forget the amount of money all of us have sunk in past systems. We didn't get here with our very first system.
All in all, getting the illusion right takes herculean efforts for an average music listener and lots of money as well.
Of course I'm looking to attract attention: I believe that it's a great shame that the audio industry is stuck in a deep rut, barely moving forward on any fronts, over decades -- it needs a good kick in the beside to get some movement happening ...
Here, another brief dose of the attention you're looking for. I'm sure that your phillips freebies with some dynamat and blu tack are top-flight and would beat the stock behringers. Then once you put a nickel on the back of the behringer woofer, it'll be better than summas.
Think how ridiculous it is that people are using speaker technology that's 60, 70, 80 years old to get optimum sound, like Pano is ....
Yes, the Behringers need major work: I could only tolerate them running for a short period, they suffer from all the same deficiencies as most systems do, but to a lesser degree. For a start, in their raw state they're miles from having a chance of going invisible ...
The message is, has always been, that systems are capable of far more than people would credit as being possible. So, why keep driving cars and never getting out of first gear, if you know how to change gears then you've got a chance to explore a much bigger world ...
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I mentioned earlier that it was done, decades ago; the health and legal issues put an end to it then, but since one could now experience it totally privately it would thus resolve as a buyer beware scenario ...
Haven't heard Focal at all; was generally not impressed by Genelec which I auditioned several times: I managed to blow the left channel of their top of the line model in the demo, was a bit of a gutless wonder ...
Well, that system sits in a 12x15x9ft room, and I have a 55" 3D monitor in there to boot. Eleminate the monitor and I say absolutely yes.
It strongly depends on your frame of reference, and what better means to you.
Sorry, I am unable to address personal finance and ones personal financial perspective or choices.
I was lucky. I bought it privately from someone who really wanted seperates. He really wants his receiver back.
Sorry man, but you are not going to get any sympathy from me on this. I am a single father that just put two twin boys through USC and Stanford on MA degrees. The amount I have dropped on HT and mutlichannel music systems has been far in excess of $10K. I know how to save and manage my money, and how to support my audio and video habits at the same time.
Bill, one mans floor is another ceiling. The problem is I don't want one persons ceiling to define my floor. When it comes to audio and video, I reach upwards. However, I also respect when an individual makes the decision to go nowhere and does not reach anywhere.
What the hell are you talking about? When a person steps into a theater, they have no legal precedent to complain or sue about anything they see or hear. Health reasons are a personal thing, not a technical thing. You cannot sue anyone just because your eyes don't allow you to see color correctly, see 3D, or not get dizzy or nauseated by a frame rate.
If you were able to blow a channel, it had nothing to do with the speaker itself. There was either a problem with the signal chain, or you were just abusing the speaker. Genelec speakers have a good reputation in the Hollywood sound and picture community, and it did not get that reputation by blowing speakers.
(This was in the demo room of one of the biggest musicians's shops in Sydney, using their source chain. The overload LED was flickering away fairly constantly but the chappie doing the demo didn't seem concerned; then, the left channel just died with no signs of anything happening, the fellow spent about 10 minutes resetting, changing leads, swapping channels ... the speaker was dead, probably had blown an internal fuse.Genelec speakers have a good reputation in the Hollywood sound and picture community, and it did not get that reputation by blowing speakers.
Not a good look for a $2000 monitor ...)
Edit: can all of that!! My brain glitched, the brand that croaked was Mackie, not Genelec, apologies to all ...
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This was a situation where the realism of the image was convincing enough that it triggered the body's natural body responses to the situation, it was beyond the rational, thinking part of the brain's control. So, show something scary where the mind and body goes into a reflex "fight or flight" mode, and a person with a weak heart could suffer from an attack. The people who developed the technology didn't abandon it lightly, they ran demos with test audiences, and it became very clear that they had a major problem ...
Now, if I really wanted to frighten the neighbours, this would be a decent one to play with: Genelec 1036A - Extremely Powerful Monitor System for Large Rooms. There would be a lot of potential here to do "Better Than Live" ...
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