Finally - some speakers

[Variac]

Yep, my wife is out of town so I was able to finish my speakers to a point. They aren't wired up yet, so a review will have to wait.
Will my wife like them? I don't think so.... they are huge!!

They are based on the Basszilla, but different in a bunch of ways.
I used a different 15" woofer (cheaper- Selenium WPU1505)
Also the new Fostex FE208E E
(coolest looking driver on the planet.)

Since the new 208 doesn't have a whizzer, it doesn't go as high as the old 208. I wanted to use a tweeter anyway, so that's a Fostex FT17H below it.

The panel with the 208 can be tilted to adjust high end roll off- It has a rising response until it gives up. I also made the panel thicker around the edges so it doesn't need to be quite as wide, and beveled it.

Efficiency should be around 95dB

If they sound good, then I will veneer the bass boxes, the heads just sit on top and will probably be painted black

[Variac]

a close-up

[OMNIFEX]

They look Nice.



LOL!!!

Originally Posted By Variac
Yep, my wife is out of town so I was able to finish my speakers to a point.

Shouldn't you have found a spot before you decided to build
these boxes?


Lesson 1

Find a spot, measure the area, then start building


Although I'm not married, I used to do this when I lived
with my parents.

[planet10]

Good to see these coming to fruition.

dave

[7V]

Originally posted by Variac
Yep, my wife is out of town so I was able to finish my speakers to a point. They aren't wired up yet, so a review will have to wait.
Will my wife like them? I don't think so.... they are huge!!

Oh boy are you in serious trouble when your wife gets back.

Good job though.
Enjoy.

[Odio Yayakoshi]

They look far better than Basszilla.
More intelligent.
I am looking forward to seeing your review.

[Variac]

Thanks for your encouragement
Of course I prefer the comments of Mr. Yayakoshi rather than
the rest of you predicting my doom(probably correctly though )

Whether or not my speakers are intelligent, I did spend a lot of time thinking about the Basszilla design, and have incorporated things I think will help me get the best sound I can.

The major changes:
-the adjustable tilt mid baffle to adjust the rising high end of the 208, the Basszila is tilted but fixed.
-The tweeter, (Basszilla has no tweeter)to get the high end back , actually it fills in at a much higher frequency around 10k Of course coherence might suffer from this, but I hope the high roll in will save me!
-The open baffle has small sides, which should keep it from having to be as wide and dampen resonannces, with very little boxy effect since they are so small.

At the moment I have just the 208 hooked up to my Hafler 220 power amp and Cambridge Audio D500 CD with runs of CAT 5 cable to the speakers. Not optimal, but good signs!

Tone of instruments? Excellent! Resolution? very good!
Speed? (I know, controversial term ) Very good.

I have to think that if you took the 208 and put it in a 4'x 4' baffle (instead of my 18") and set it on the ground, that in many regards it would be better than 90% of the speakers out there! It is definately in High End territory. They need to be tilted back a bit to de-emphasize the high mids, but NOTHING like a Lowther which I find impossibly irritating without corrections. With the baffle I have, the cone cane barely be seen to move at highest volumes. I think the new 208 has a lot more travel and could be used with a much bigger baffle than I have without running out of travel. The 208 is run full range, the 15" will be rolled off around 190- 200 hz. I probably will try a bigger baffle and bass speaker rolloff at about 150hz someday. That would really get the crossover zone out of the way!

Biggest down side: a pretty consistant hum, even with the volume all the way down. I then turned off the amp and the hum remained! I figured out that my notoriously humming computer speakers were turned on BEHIND the new speakers- Turned those off and no worries!! That was the easiest fix ever!!
Next report- Tweeter and woofers connected!

Mark

[Variac]

Latest update:
I have them wired up, I'm just like all the other DIY guys. I think my speakers sound wonderful!!! I've never had such great speakers in my house! An audio buddy has come over and confirms that we're talking High End quality!
I had to add an L-pad controlling both the 208 and the tweeter, because the 15" isn't efficient enough to match it. But no noticible reduction in sound quality. The tweeter is very important - the 208 doesn't have super high frequencies, and the tweeter fixes that with no problems that I can hear. It is more efficient than the 208 so I guess it should be padded down a bit more than the 208, but it is crossed over so high that it really doesn't seem to matter. The cheaper 15" Selenium drivers sound great- on jazz you can perfectly hear the walking bass, each note distinct and tuneful. The 208 quality is so good that it certainly would be reasonable to spend the money on the Audaxes recommended for Basszilla. On easy stuff like acoustic guitar, it sounds like the guitar is just right in the room with you. On hard stuff like piano, the quick response really gets the percussive sound correctly.I made the open baffle narrower, but with small side walls. Today I tried making the baffle wider with taped on "wings" to lower it's bass, but the sound changed for the worse. I have been very lucky that my changes to Basszilla haven't hurt, but probably helped. I am losing interest in tweaking it anymore, I'm in the "pull out your music collection and listen for hours" stage
Eventually, I will use the Hafler for the bass only, and I hope an X-SOZ for the 208 and tweet. Then I will be able to get rid of the L-pad.
This is one serious speaker- - I don't need better , I'm moving on to making an amp

[spa317]

Variac,
Wow, they look fantastic and I bet they sound just as good!
I will have to put in an order for the plans now...I am just a bit unsure whether to use the older or newer 208, and whether to go for the Audax woofer...My only other thing is if my 8w amp will run it all, but I can always change amps I guess. It might make sense for me to try and sell my speakers with their 208 in them, and buy either the old or new 208....
Do you prefer sealed box or ported? Any desire for a sub, or is there enough warmth and punch in the low bass?
Congrats on a first class job, one that to me is much more appealing aethetically than the 'boxy' Basszilla look.
Cheers,
Mark

[Variac]

First, thank you for your kind words. I remember the photos of your backloaded horns with the old 208 and they were beautiful.

You know, I was listening to my speakers today and the bass is really fine, amazing really. I suspect what everyone says about full range speakers AND pro drivers is true-they need time to break in. The bass driver only goes up to about 200 hz, so maybe a lot of the the attributes of higher end bass drivers (smooth extended range for instance) aren't needed. I put on a Telarc Organ CD last night and those low register notes were very distinct and really made the music come alive.

I think I have heard that P Audio stuff is pretty reasonably priced there. It is getting quite a good reputation here, even though isn't very cheap-probably due to shipping those heavy magnets around the world. I paid $100 USD each for my Seleniums, which are made in Brazil, on a very good sale.They aren't particularly well known here or considered that special. The point is that they are good quality high efficiency pro drivers. They are also easily available in the US at Parts Express

If you could get good P Audio drivers for less than half the Audax price I'll bet you would be really happy. If they don't work out, you can make some PA systems for your parties or sell them to a local rock and roll band. 97 dB efficiency would be better than 95dB. The only tricky part would be the crossover.

If you are going to use a tweeter, I think the new 208 is probably the way to go. I'm not sure if I emphasized this, but I didn't use the notch filter he recommends which is a max 3 db cut and super wide, not a surgical notch.Since I am adding the tweeter, I can roll off the entire top end of the new 208 a bit by tilting maybe a little more. It naturally gives up around 10k
Dick had to use the notch because he wanted the response to rise at the top again cause he had no tweeter. I think you could get a good price for your assembled speakers, so the best idea might be to sell them if you are going the Basszilla way. If you can't sell them, then make a Basszilla with the old 208- You can then follow his plans exactly.

I needed to cut the 208 & tweeter with an l-pad because the bass isn't as efficient. In theory, the Audax is 100 db efficient
be to me the curve looks a lot lower in the lower ranges. Dick doesn't seem to have any problem with there efficiencies matching, so: either the Audax is more efficient than the Selenium or he likes less bass than I do. IMHO my bass isn't exaggerated. The reason I used the Selenium was cost only. It isn't going to be cheaper down there!
Of course Eminence is a possibility, The Delta models response looks good, but most of their other drivers have pretty rough response. The Deltalites have good curves with Neo magnets that are lighter to ship too.

IF you didn't need to cut the 208 much, the efficiency will be fine. My plan is to use a big amp on the bass and a tiny amp for the 208 & 17
Maybe you could do the same if your existing amp doesn't do the job. Remember, the speaker is designed for low output amps.

Plenty of punch, the whole speaker is not really warm and fuzzy, but sounds like the instruments are right there and up close It is ported with a 4" hole in the back near the floor. I'm planning to try sealed (would be .6 damping with this cabinet) but am having too much fun listening. I think tubes would work really well

My box is flat to 40 hz according to calcs, when bass reflex. With sealed box it rolls off sooner, but smoothly.
They say the the room will increase the bass. A lot of people seem to prefer sealed big boxes. We'll see.

Here's the link to the Basszilla:
http://store.hifiauthority.com/olsherkits.html

The plans are dsigned and sold by Dick Olsher, an authority in hi fi circles with excellent credentials. Although I changed a lot of things, I know that without his plans I would never have gotten to this point, so I request anyone wanting t o make a speaker based on this design to send him the $20 for info. It is a very good tutorial on the issues of this kind of speaker and well worth the money.

Of course you get the most value from his plans by following his instructions exactly and using his choices of drivers.

THIS IS a huge advantage, because he recently contacted me (wow!) after I sent him photos of my speaks, and requested I make him a copy of my top baffle unit. He said he is planning to design a new model based the new 208, and the FT17 tweet.

I assume that he will stick with the pricey Audax woofer.
SO.... If you get the Audax woofers, the New 208 Fostex and the Fostex FT17 tweeter, you probably have the supplies for the future Olsher authorized model, approved by his ears AND tested with his computer measuring device. He did warn that it might be quite a while before he has time for this though......

Mark Cronander